Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[nfitz]

Because these projections are only realistic if hardly any development gets built along the line.

Given you've previously demonstrated you completely technically incompetent in theses areas, with your poorly-researched and erroneous comments, suddenly we're supposed to accept that your competent to make such comments?

To suggest that someone well known to have such integrity as David Miller would tamper with such a study to cook the results puts in well into nutbar territory. To believe that the professionals who completed the work would let such grossly unethical interference to take place, putting their careers and livelihood at risk, is so far beyond nutbar territory, that one can only assume that you are either institutionalized, or will be soon. The only other possible explanation is your trolling.

However, if you are sure of this, why not contact the appropriate regulatory authorities with your concerns, so they can discipline the professionals who committed such unethical acts. I doubt you'll actually do this, because you know your full of it.

 

[andrewpmk]

Given you've previously demonstrated you completely technically incompetent in theses areas, with your poorly-researched and erroneous comments, suddenly we're supposed to accept that your competent to make such comments?

To suggest that someone well known to have such integrity as David Miller would tamper with such a study to cook the results puts in well into nutbar territory. To believe that the professionals who completed the work would let such grossly unethical interference to take place, putting their careers and livelihood at risk, is so far beyond nutbar territory, that one can only assume that you are either institutionalized, or will be soon. The only other possible explanation is your trolling.

However, if you are sure of this, why not contact the appropriate regulatory authorities with your concerns, so they can discipline the professionals who committed such unethical acts. I doubt you'll actually do this, because you know your full of it.

David Miller was really stubborn, seemed to have this weird insistence of using LRT for everything, and refused to consider subways, including for Eglinton. I don't think he really understood these issues very well.

My point with these ridership projections is that I think that they are only valid if there are relatively low levels of development along the line. It is very hard to predict the future but clearly if a lot of tall buildings get built along these lines, ridership will be much higher than projected. No one really knows how fast Toronto will be growing a few decades in the future, it is entirely possible that Toronto's growth will slow down dramatically (maybe the government reduces immigration levels or something). I don't think the Miller administration really put much effect into these projections, they were a very minor part of preparing the environmental assessments for these lines. Any projection, regardless of how well it is done, is going to have an enormous degree of uncertainty. You can never prove whether these projections are right or wrong until the line actually opens and we see how bad the overcrowding is. Also Highway 401 traffic is unbelievably bad - it can take 90 minutes to get from 410 to 404 in afternoon rush hour if there is bad weather - and I can't help but think that a huge number of people who work near the airport will use this line, unless there is some alternative (maybe a regular non premium fare GO train to the airport?). I could be wrong.

If LRT costs $5 billion and elevated rail which can carry more people costs $6 billion (for example), and you don't know what the ridership will be but say there is a 50% chance that it will be high and 50% chance it will be low, I think you are much better off with the higher capacity option.

 

[StatGeek]

I agree with you. In general, people want traffic to move slow in their own neighbourhood, and fast in other people's neighbourhoods. This includes the business owners in particular. Urban businesses rely on walk-in and bike-in traffic much more than drive in traffic, so the slower and more pedestrian/cycling friendly you can make a street the more customers you will get.

Agree fully on this, you listen to Ford (unfortunately most of the suburban councilors) they view the city where you visit for work or maybe get a quick drink or event but don't view it as an actual neighborhood that people live their lives in. The way they talk they only view it as an inconvinent nessesary form going to Point A to point B (their home)

Local stores get much more business with walking traffic and I think street cars/LRT are a great asset for a community, especially if TTC starts giving out time-based transfers where people can hop off and on. With car being a focus you might have one or two parking spots in front of your store, with an LRT or steetcar (with time based transfers) you have hundred of people passing by and the ability to easily leave the transit to the store front.

I always find it odd seeing councilors who community are constantly rated the worst in business (like Ford) telling other community that are doing much better like St Clair and Eglinton how they should run their community. St Clair is doing MUCH better since the ROW and I am sure the same will be said for Eglinton with the Crosstown.

 

[andrewpmk]

To suggest that someone well known to have such integrity as David Miller would tamper with such a study to cook the results puts in well into nutbar territory. To believe that the professionals who completed the work would let such grossly unethical interference to take place, putting their careers and livelihood at risk, is so far beyond nutbar territory, that one can only assume that you are either institutionalized, or will be soon. The only other possible explanation is your trolling.

This comment is ridiculous. If the ridership projections are wrong, it is not the engineers' fault, it is the fault of the people who are riding the line, because too many people decided to ride the line. The engineer was given orders to design a LRT line that can carry maximum 10000/hour, if it carries more than that it is not their fault. The engineer's job is to make the line work to its designed specification and ensure that it is safe; since city council ordered them to build LRT, they build LRT. I don't think an engineer is doing anything wrong by creating a ridership projection that assumes that absolutely no new buildings will be built along Eglinton in the next 20 years, because that could happen, even if it doesn't seem very plausible. How much ridership a line will have largely depends on where people live and work. For instance, if everyone who works in Scarborough lives in Scarborough and everyone who works in Mississauga lives in Mississauga ridership on the Eglinton LRT will be low. If everyone who works in Scarborough lives in Mississauga and everyone who lives in Mississauga works in Scarborough then it will be severely over capacity. Even if we are absolutely certain about how much development will be built along a line, people can choose whether to live close to or far from their work and ridership will vary drastically depending on this.

 

[salsa]

To suggest that someone well known to have such integrity as David Miller would tamper with such a study to cook the results puts in well into nutbar territory. To believe that the professionals who completed the work would let such grossly unethical interference to take place, putting their careers and livelihood at risk, is so far beyond nutbar territory, that one can only assume that you are either institutionalized, or will be soon. The only other possible explanation is your trolling.

Sooner or later he will start asking for Miller's birth certificate.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

We had the opportunity to build subways years agao and we didn't David Miller chose LRT because we didn't have any money. People in suburban Toronto better stop talking outta both of their mouths, as their kids continue to move downtown and abandon Richview, Maple Glen, Agincourt because of their commute times that we are trying to improve on the cheap with LRT. If you want subways, pay up, or shut up and keep your regions lowest taxes.

 

[aquateam]

David Miller was really stubborn, seemed to have this weird insistence of using LRT for everything, and refused to consider subways, including for Eglinton. I don't think he really understood these issues very well.

He didn't so much refuse to consider subways as he refused to assume that all forms of transit have to be underground, cost be damned. Eglinton includes long portions where there is ample room to add a right of way. Given how precious transit dollars were, he tried to stretch them as far as possible by keeping it on the surface when possible.

My point with these ridership projections is that I think that they are only valid if there are relatively low levels of development along the line. It is very hard to predict the future but clearly if a lot of tall buildings get built along these lines, ridership will be much higher than projected. No one really knows how fast Toronto will be growing a few decades in the future, it is entirely possible that Toronto's growth will slow down dramatically (maybe the government reduces immigration levels or something). I don't think the Miller administration really put much effect into these projections, they were a very minor part of preparing the environmental assessments for these lines. Any projection, regardless of how well it is done, is going to have an enormous degree of uncertainty. You can never prove whether these projections are right or wrong until the line actually opens and we see how bad the overcrowding is. Also Highway 401 traffic is unbelievably bad - it can take 90 minutes to get from 410 to 404 in afternoon rush hour if there is bad weather - and I can't help but think that a huge number of people who work near the airport will use this line, unless there is some alternative (maybe a regular non premium fare GO train to the airport?). I could be wrong.

You're right about projections being very uncertain. When Network 2011 was first proposed (with the Sheppard and Eglinton subways) the growth projections were wildly optimistic for NYCC, STC, ECC, etc. Only downtown has met (and exceeded) those levels of growth.

I think that the general idea with LRT is that, if we're lucky enough to reach capacity on Eglinton then that means it's time to construct a parallel rapid transit route, say on Lawrence, to bleed demand. It's better to have a network of rapid transit lines than one super high capacity line.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Miller refused to consider subways, except for, you know, the TYSSE.

 

[Johnny Au]

Sooner or later he will start asking for Miller's birth certificate.

...and wonder if he was actually born in San Francisco and not another city in the Bay Area.

 

[nfitz]

David Miller was really stubborn, seemed to have this weird insistence of using LRT for everything, and refused to consider subways, including for Eglinton. I don't think he really understood these issues very well.

Why do you insist on saying such untruths? Miller pushed ahead with the Spadina line extension to Steeles ... and even played along with the unnecessary extension to Highway 7 the Ontario government insisted, committing that the entire operating subsidy for this line would be paid for by Toronto with no Region of York contribution.

In his first term, in 2004, he even pushed for the province to fund the Sheppard extension to Scarborough Centre. It was only after it was clear that such funding wasn't forthcoming, that they pushed ahead with LRT lines where they made more sense. However, he still advocated for a downtown relief line to be started around 2018 once the LRT lines were underway. When the province placed the DRL in the 25-year portion of the Big Move in 2008, Miller voted to request the province to move it to the 15-yer portion of the Big Move, so that it would be completed by 2023.

So where do you get off with these bald-faced lies that Miller insisted using LRT for everything, and refused to consider subways?

I don't think you understand these issues very well.

 

[GenerationW]

We had the opportunity to build subways years agao and we didn't David Miller chose LRT because we didn't have any money.

No money?? He had $8 billion to spend on any transit projects he wanted. Toronto has never had that luxury before or since.

Miller refused to consider subways, except for, you know, the TYSSE.

I think he was at best neutral on Spadina. In any case I don't think he had much choice once the province basically took control of that project.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Miller refused to consider subways, except for, you know, the TYSSE.

Which is a vaughan subway/

No money?? He had $8 billion to spend on any transit projects he wanted. Toronto has never had that luxury before or since.

I think he was at best neutral on Spadina. In any case I don't think he had much choice once the province basically took control of that project.

Have you even managed a chequebook before? 8 billion gets as the DRL, and that's all. Transit city was a good plan which covered most of the city. Enough of you saying the same thing in every single post and blaming just him for something both the province and city were responsible for.

 

[rbt]

Which is a vaughan subway/

That Miller raised taxes by about 1% to pay for.

One way or another, Miller used political capital to make it happen. Actually, I wonder how Ford voted on that budget.

 

[edmundoconnor]

No money?? He had $8 billion to spend on any transit projects he wanted. Toronto has never had that luxury before or since.

The $8 Billion has always been controlled by the province. The city was welcome to provide its input, but the province has always had the final say. It is not like a big pile of cash that the city could spend on anything it liked.

 

[nfitz]

That Miller raised taxes by about 1% to pay for.

Toronto's share of the Spadina extension is only $526 million. Oh no! My $2,000 a year City tax bill goes up to $2,020. That's $20 extra a year. A one-time increase.

Let's put this in perspective. A monthly TTC pass has gone up by $35 a year since Miller was elected. That's $420 a year. A 35% increase!