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AlvinofDiaspar said:
nfitz:

Sorry, are you comparing people with disabilities, who are protected by law - with someone who had to travel with luggage by choice? The sense of entitlement and lack of concerns for other riders is staggering.
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So you think that people travelling to the airport shouldn't use the subway at rush hour? That's absolutely absurd. I see lots people with luggage boarding at Kipling station whenever I'm there (assuming the airport bus has arrived). I've never seen it cause a problem. And I've certainly done it myself. One bag under the seat, one bag right in front of me; carry-on on my lap. At most it takes up the space of half a person standing. And that's travelling heavy - normally I've got only one suitcase, and it's under the seat, with the carry on on my lap, not taking up any space. Heck, on one occasion I had two kids with me and another adult and 6 bags, and we didn't even use 4 seats, just a bench of 3, and all the space underneath, and perhaps a couple of extra inches in front of us with a bag sticking out.

I really can't fathom how anyone could have such an overwhelming sense of entitlement to complain about people using the subway to travel to the airport!
 
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nfitz said:
So you think that people travelling to the airport shouldn't use the subway at rush hour? That's absolutely absurd. I see lots people with luggage boarding at Kipling station whenever I'm there (assuming the airport bus has arrived). I've never seen it cause a problem. And I've certainly done it myself. One bag under the seat, one bag right in front of me; carry-on on my lap. At most it takes up the space of half a person standing. And that's travelling heavy - normally I've got only one suitcase, and it's under the seat, with the carry on on my lap, not taking up any space. Heck, on one occasion I had two kids with me and another adult and 6 bags, and we didn't even use 4 seats, just a bench of 3, and all the space underneath, and perhaps a couple of extra inches in front of us with a bag sticking out.

I really can't fathom how anyone could have such an overwhelming sense of entitlement to complain about people using the subway to travel to the airport!
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Bags? I am talking about people with oversized luggage on wheels taking up standing room for multiple riders while tripping over the gap and blocks passengers from boarding and disembarking.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Bags? I am talking about people with oversized luggage on wheels taking up standing room for multiple riders while tripping over the gap and blocks passengers from boarding and disembarking.
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So ... you can still shove most of such a bag under a seat on the subway, and take up little space.

If the issue is that the subway is filled beyond the capacity, then that's a separate issue. However at peak hours, if you have to get to the airport, your not even going to save any or much time these days by taking a taxi - let alone the financial cost.

I suppose there's about a one-hour period a day where it might be more difficult to board the subway near me with luggage. Can't say I've ever tried during that time ... but when I used to ride that line every day at peak, I never noticed an issue. And it's never difficult to get a seat in the corner out-of-the-way at Kipling, even at peak.

If the TTC didn't want people riding with luggage, they wouldn't have gone to all of the trouble of redoing the interior of the Airport Rocket with all the special shelving to handle very large luggage.
 
nfitz said:
So ... you can still shove most of such a bag under a seat on the subway, and take up little space.
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Yes, on a packed train, for luggage that is clearly not going to fit anywhere underneath a seat that one can't get to. We aren't talking about bags here.

If the issue is that the subway is filled beyond the capacity, then that's a separate issue. However at peak hours, if you have to get to the airport, your not even going to save any or much time these days by taking a taxi - let alone the financial cost.
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And yet there are those who think that doing it during rush is a good idea.

I suppose there's about a one-hour period a day where it might be more difficult to board the subway near me with luggage. Can't say I've ever tried during that time ... but when I used to ride that line every day at peak, I never noticed an issue. And it's never difficult to get a seat in the corner out-of-the-way at Kipling, even at peak.
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Clearly you have not had the pleasure of someone on YUS doing that - and I am not talking about reverse flow during the evening rush. Best of all, these folks have a tendency to travel in packs of 2s and 3s.

If the TTC didn't want people riding with luggage, they wouldn't have gone to all of the trouble of redoing the interior of the Airport Rocket with all the special shelving to handle very large luggage.
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Actually, they don't allow bikes during rush hour - does that mean we should not have bike racks on new buses? Nope. Transit is not a free for all - these are sensible usage restrictions that most will benefit from. Restrictions on travelling with oversized luggage and other packages is one of them.

AoD
 
First off, we are 7/24 society where the 9-5 jobs don't exist like they did decades ago and we travel a lot more.

Not everyone is willing or afford to pay the $40-$70 cab ride to/from the airport, depending which airport you are using in the first place.

Airlines don't schedule only outside of peak time, but when they have slots to fill that plane that is at peak time. Then, you have planes arriving late due to weather or other issues that will see people using transit to get home. Then you have air crews going to/from the airport who have to be at the airport X time before departure that need luggage since they are gone a few days depending the length of the flight.

You need to be on trains/tube/subway/buses/trams that go to Europe airport to see it no big deal as its a way of life and have very little impact on regular service outside the airport.

If we ban luggage, then we should ban "ALL" carry on items so we have nothing in our hands or on our back as well telling "ALL"stroller people you can't use transit at peak time. Never will happen nor should it.

Depending on my needs and travel trip, I will stop off on the way home to do shopping and carry up to 50lb of food on my back as well in hand so I don't have to go out and do it after I get home if the store on my route to free up time.

You will find riders without luggage blocking access to/from "ALL" transit as they want to be a door since they only think of themselves. The ones with oversize luggage could be someone leaving Canada for the last time, just arrived to Canada, taking things home for a visit since they have items that cannot be obtain back home and helping the family out.

At the end of the day, either live with your issues or don't use transit at peak time as its for everyone, not just you.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Yes, on a packed train, for luggage that is clearly not going to fit anywhere underneath a seat that one can't get to. We aren't talking about bags here.



And yet there are those who think that doing it during rush is a good idea.



Clearly you have not had the pleasure of someone on YUS doing that - and I am not talking about reverse flow during the evening rush. Best of all, these folks have a tendency to travel in packs of 2s and 3s.



Actually, they don't allow bikes during rush hour - does that mean we should not have bike racks on new buses? Nope. Transit is not a free for all - these are sensible usage restrictions that most will benefit from. Restrictions on travelling with oversized luggage and other packages is one of them.

AoD
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Please don't take this the wrong way, it is meant as an honest question.......Is it fair to assess your thoughts in your last post as also meaning you would be opposed to, say, the extension of Eglinton to the airport....afterall that would encourage people to take luggage, at all times of the day on the new Crosstown line.
 
TOareaFan said:
Please don't take this the wrong way, it is meant as an honest question.......Is it fair to assess your thoughts in your last post as also meaning you would be opposed to, say, the extension of Eglinton to the airport....afterall that would encourage people to take luggage, at all times of the day on the new Crosstown line.
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Wrong. It's all about being reasonable - during a condition when the vehicle is not full? I don't see any reason to prohibit it - when it is packed and especially during rush hour? That's a different story. Not that it would necessarily apply to EC (given TTC is the operator), but under the TTC by-laws there is already a section on it:

3.34 A proper authority may refuse passage on the transit system to:
a) a person behaving or appearing to behave in a manner that would interfere with the ordinary enjoyment of persons using the transit system or that may result in harm to themselves or others.
b) a person whose conduct is or is likely to be objectionable to other passengers;
c) a person carrying hand luggage, a parcel or any object or thing that does inconvenience or is likely to inconvenience other passengers or TTC employees; or
d) a person who alters their identity through the use of a disguise intended to obscure or otherwise alter their appearance.

https://www.ttc.ca/Riding_the_TTC/TTC_Bylaws/index.jsp

And we also have similar restrictions on TTC and GO for bicycles during rush.

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
Wrong. It's all about being reasonable - during a condition when the vehicle is not full? I don't see any reason to prohibit it - when it is packed and especially during rush hour? That's a different story. Not that it would necessarily apply to EC (given TTC is the operator), but under the TTC by-laws there is already a section on it:

3.34 A proper authority may refuse passage on the transit system to:
a) a person behaving or appearing to behave in a manner that would interfere with the ordinary enjoyment of persons using the transit system or that may result in harm to themselves or others.
b) a person whose conduct is or is likely to be objectionable to other passengers;
c) a person carrying hand luggage, a parcel or any object or thing that does inconvenience or is likely to inconvenience other passengers or TTC employees; or
d) a person who alters their identity through the use of a disguise intended to obscure or otherwise alter their appearance.

https://www.ttc.ca/Riding_the_TTC/TTC_Bylaws/index.jsp

And we also have similar restrictions on TTC and GO for bicycles during rush.

AoD
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I get what you are saying but it seems like a very unrealistic expectation to enforce that when a service to an airport is being offered. The TTC encourages people to ride their combination of subway and bus to the airport....at all hours of the day. Presumably if the EC was extended they would similarly encourage people to use that service to the airport.....so to do that and then impose, or expect riders to self-impose, restrictions on baggage seems unreasonable (IMO)
 
Hey, baggage is restricted on the plane so what does it matter. If it is rush hour and you can't carry your luggage on your lap and under the bench of a subway train, chances are you should either take a cab or find a friend to drive you. It is about common courtesy for the people trying to squeeze on that packed subway train - but cant because someone decided that they needed 16 wardrobe changes for a 5-day trip.
 
TOareafan:

I highly doubt it is going to be an issue for EC for a long time, in any case, the issue is more acute for YUS. You might disagree, but rules such as these are meant to be enforced.

someMidTowner said:
Hey, baggage is restricted on the plane so what does it matter. If it is rush hour and you can't carry your luggage on your lap and under the bench of a subway train, chances are you should either take a cab or find a friend to drive you. It is about common courtesy for the people trying to squeeze on that packed subway train - but cant because someone decided that they needed 16 wardrobe changes for a 5-day trip.
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Or leave early and avoid rush hour conditions.

AoD
 
someMidTowner said:
If it is rush hour and you can't carry your luggage on your lap and under the bench of a subway train, chances are you should either take a cab or find a friend to drive you. It is about common courtesy for the people trying to squeeze on that packed subway train - but cant because someone decided that they needed 16 wardrobe changes for a 5-day trip.
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This kind of infighting and policing of who deserves and doesn't deserve transit is one of the worst things to my mind about Toronto transit politics. Rather than trying to find a way for there to be enough transit for everyone, it's all about who doesn't deserve transit.

Is it really better for there to be one more car (attempting to be) on the road during rush hour than for there to be one more person with some luggage on a subway train? And does it matter either way, given that what one considers to be right isn't going to affect anyone else's behaviour much?
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
TOareafan:

I highly doubt it is going to be an issue for EC for a long time, in any case, the issue is more acute for YUS. You might disagree, but rules such as these are meant to be enforced.
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No, rules like that are meant to be eliminated. I doubt it's legally enforceable, which means if TTC did try to enforce it, they could be liable for damages if someone was to end up missing their flight.

Give TTC actively encourages people to take transit to Pearson, and has installed special luggage racks on the express bus to the subway, it's absolutely inconceivable that anyone would be so self-centred to complain that people are on the subway travelling to the airport with luggage!

It's just a bizarre misguided as the old TTC campaign to stop housewives from travelling in rush hour to do errands.

AlvinofDiaspar said:
Or leave early and avoid rush hour conditions.
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If it were only an hour. Trains can be packed for hours consecutively. Sure, I'd recommend avoiding it ... or perhaps catching the slightly slower, but empty train heading in the opposite direction (say southbound at Dundas). But you can't restrict this. Nor should you. It's exceptionally poor public policy.

How is this any worse than what you see on the Piccadilly line in London. You routinely see lots of people with lots of luggage heading to Heathrow, despite having smaller and more overcrowded trains. Ditto for the Canada Line in Vancouver. I've also seen this on the El in Chicago heading to O'Hare. I can't say I've seen it in Paris or New York, but I'd assume it happens.

I also see people with luggage heading to Union Station to catch a VIA train. Should they also be driving instead?
 
nfitz said:
I can't say I've seen it in Paris or New York, but I'd assume it happens.
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No subway line direct to the airport in Paris There's the RER, which sees lots of people ride with luggage, but those are larger trains with more space. I've been part of a group of 6 fresh off the plane with luggage in tow to get on the RER to Gare du Nord and then transfer to the Metro. No one seemed to mind, but it could be due to the sardine conditions that always exist on the Paris Metro.
 
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