But will that even be needed when the DRL relieves a lot of the pressure? I'd much rather use that billion dollars pushing the DRL further west than trying to rehab Bloor-Yonge.
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OneCity Plan
- Thread starter AlvinofDiaspar
- Start date
But will that even be needed when the DRL relieves a lot of the pressure? I'd much rather use that billion dollars pushing the DRL further west than trying to rehab Bloor-Yonge.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
it probably will be needed when this 30 year plan is reaching a close.. but the DRL should eradicate the need for it for the first 20-25 years of the plan.
Very true. I'd still rather use that money to build some sort of other transit in order to reduce the need for it though. Even if it's something like a Parliament or Bathurst tunnelled LRT.
Thoughtless Miscreant
Active Member
How far off is the DRL though? All we know about the staging is that the BD extension gets top priority with Waterfront East being next in line. And all the previously funded LRT lines are still on track. So by the time we get around to the DRL we could already be inching up on that 20 year mark.
Well when you look at it, the B-D extension only needs an extra ~$400 million (or whatever the exact number was). Through this new tax scheme, that can be raised solely by the City in a few years. They can start design and construction with what they already have from the SRT refurb and extension funds already committed.
And the WELRT is being funded in large part by Waterfront Toronto, and isn't that big of an expense (at least compared to most transit lines). The first 3 or 4 years of the tax funds are spoken for with those 2 projects, but after that it's wide open. Which means that it's between Sheppard West and the Don Mills Subway to fight for those funds. Given the relative priorities, I would hope that the DMS would be ahead of SW.
Electrify
Senior Member
Late to the party, but a few things I've noticed so far:
First, like the Transit City map, what is the proposed stop spacing going to be like? Are these new and modified LRT lines going to have limited stops to ensure a compromise between speed and accessibility, or are they going to be only slightly wider than the local bus routes that currently serve these corridors? A similar problem arises with the Ellesmere BRT and Sheppard LRT, the former which is already a planned project for Durham Region.
Second, if the Sheppard subway runs across to the Spadina line, what is the point of having the Finch LRT run across this same stretch? And why does it have priority above the Don Mills LRT, which would be infinitely more useful? In the press conference which just aired, they mentioned that someone from Don Mills and Steeles could take an LRT to Eglinton, and then a subway downtown. As someone who used to live at this intersection, I could catch an express bus to Finch and take the subway downtown with a total transit time of about an hour. Could a couple of rapid transit routes along Don Mills encourage me to take this route instead?
Finally, and I'll admit it is a nitpick, if Etobicoke and Scarborough get an "express line," what does this mean for the north? Yes, the north does have subway lines, but the Scarborough Express looks to be almost entirely duplicated by subways as well. While it is great that the TTC is taking charge at moving people long distances within their own borders, seeing as GO is already focusing on converting some of their commuter lines into regional metros, it might be best to let them take hold on these projects.
Overall, this is a great plan. I'd think of it as a refocused Transit City, or a TC 2.0, rather than a whole new map.
First, like the Transit City map, what is the proposed stop spacing going to be like? Are these new and modified LRT lines going to have limited stops to ensure a compromise between speed and accessibility, or are they going to be only slightly wider than the local bus routes that currently serve these corridors? A similar problem arises with the Ellesmere BRT and Sheppard LRT, the former which is already a planned project for Durham Region.
Second, if the Sheppard subway runs across to the Spadina line, what is the point of having the Finch LRT run across this same stretch? And why does it have priority above the Don Mills LRT, which would be infinitely more useful? In the press conference which just aired, they mentioned that someone from Don Mills and Steeles could take an LRT to Eglinton, and then a subway downtown. As someone who used to live at this intersection, I could catch an express bus to Finch and take the subway downtown with a total transit time of about an hour. Could a couple of rapid transit routes along Don Mills encourage me to take this route instead?
Finally, and I'll admit it is a nitpick, if Etobicoke and Scarborough get an "express line," what does this mean for the north? Yes, the north does have subway lines, but the Scarborough Express looks to be almost entirely duplicated by subways as well. While it is great that the TTC is taking charge at moving people long distances within their own borders, seeing as GO is already focusing on converting some of their commuter lines into regional metros, it might be best to let them take hold on these projects.
Overall, this is a great plan. I'd think of it as a refocused Transit City, or a TC 2.0, rather than a whole new map.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
you have the same concerns as me... what I would like to see as a finalized version of the plan;
red = subway (i included the eglinton LRT in this where it is grade separated)
blue = LRT
yellow = the rail corridor lines
I didn`t bother with the BRT and streetcar extensions as I am completely satisfied with the plans for them.
what the current plan is:
what I would like it to look like:
the 7 billion saved from the removal of the stouffville line goes into the extension of the DRL to sheppard, as well as to bloor in the west, as well as a further extension of the bloor line north of sheppard to replace the cancelled stouffville line. The 2.6 billion saved on the removal of the don mills LRT and the finch west LRT goes towards the extension of the bloor line to sherway gardens.
red = subway (i included the eglinton LRT in this where it is grade separated)
blue = LRT
yellow = the rail corridor lines
I didn`t bother with the BRT and streetcar extensions as I am completely satisfied with the plans for them.
what the current plan is:
what I would like it to look like:
the 7 billion saved from the removal of the stouffville line goes into the extension of the DRL to sheppard, as well as to bloor in the west, as well as a further extension of the bloor line north of sheppard to replace the cancelled stouffville line. The 2.6 billion saved on the removal of the don mills LRT and the finch west LRT goes towards the extension of the bloor line to sherway gardens.
Thoughtless Miscreant
Active Member
Most of these lines are from old plans, so I imagine the old stop spacings are going to carry over. So Ellesmere is going to be very wide (I believe the only planed stops in Toronto are STC, Markham Road, Neilson, UTSC, Meadowvale, and Sheppard), whereas Kingston Road, Waterfront East, and the Transit City lines are going to be more local. As for the Wilson BRT, I can't imagine that's going to be anything more than a partial ROW for the 96, given how short it is.
BurlOak
Senior Member
Bridges are not that expensive.
Look at the cost estimates of tunnelling on Eglington (Ford plan) and the elevated Canada Line in Vancouver. Tunnelled is about $300M, while elevated was about $100M.
Same thing for a bridge, maybe with some long spans it will be about half the cost of the tunnelled portion. Having a bridge actually makes the line cheaper than tunnelled.
I assume that the Don Mills line will be tunnelled (or burried) south of Eglinton.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
BurlOak:
They are likely to be more expensive than the examples you've cited - these have to cross ravines at a significant height (think Leaside Bridge)
AoD
They are likely to be more expensive than the examples you've cited - these have to cross ravines at a significant height (think Leaside Bridge)
AoD
adeel
Active Member
just curious, the BD extension discussed, will it still stop at Scarb town centre? (per the onecity site, it seems it will, but ive read conflicting info in this thread).
I think a BD ext that doesnt hit STC is dumb, but i really like and always have supported a subway extension.
I think a BD ext that doesnt hit STC is dumb, but i really like and always have supported a subway extension.
nhui06
Active Member
Pretty ambitious plan overall, but I think there are too much going on. Here are the ones I like and I feel should be top priority:
- Extend the BD subway to STC and to Sheppard BUT why not just use the SRT line and convert that into a subway? Isn't that much cheaper than having to dig underneath McCowan?
- Extend the Sheppard Subway west to Downsview: been promoting this idea forever. Use it to connect the 2 subways lines up north.
- Don Mills Subway line to Queen station: Like the idea of this DRL line. They should try to extend it to Osgoode if they can.
- Yonge subway extension up to Steeles: Makes sense since that area is very developed now.
- Waterfront East streetcar: not too expensive but needed since they are really developing this area.
- Waterfront West LRT: needed with all the condos being developed on the waterfront.
- St. Clair streetcar extension
- Finch LRT extension to Yonge (as originally planned)
- Use the railway corridors for more trains (Scarborough Express and Eto. express); not sure if they can though since these corridors are pretty narrow.
Here are the ones I think they can scrap to save money and taxes:
- The BRT lines
- LRT extensions to the airport (since we already have the Eto. Express)
- Malvern, Jane, and Don Mills LRT
- Extend the BD subway to STC and to Sheppard BUT why not just use the SRT line and convert that into a subway? Isn't that much cheaper than having to dig underneath McCowan?
- Extend the Sheppard Subway west to Downsview: been promoting this idea forever. Use it to connect the 2 subways lines up north.
- Don Mills Subway line to Queen station: Like the idea of this DRL line. They should try to extend it to Osgoode if they can.
- Yonge subway extension up to Steeles: Makes sense since that area is very developed now.
- Waterfront East streetcar: not too expensive but needed since they are really developing this area.
- Waterfront West LRT: needed with all the condos being developed on the waterfront.
- St. Clair streetcar extension
- Finch LRT extension to Yonge (as originally planned)
- Use the railway corridors for more trains (Scarborough Express and Eto. express); not sure if they can though since these corridors are pretty narrow.
Here are the ones I think they can scrap to save money and taxes:
- The BRT lines
- LRT extensions to the airport (since we already have the Eto. Express)
- Malvern, Jane, and Don Mills LRT
jje1000
Senior Member
The Hypocrisy of Rob Ford
Earlier...
Now...
https://twitter.com/#!/cbcsteve
There we go. Rob Ford was never serious about building transit. He don't want a single piece of transit to be built under his term, or the next.
Earlier...
The Globe said:
Now...
Steven D'Souza said:
Steven D'Souza said:
https://twitter.com/#!/cbcsteve
There we go. Rob Ford was never serious about building transit. He don't want a single piece of transit to be built under his term, or the next.
BurlOak
Senior Member
I still worry that the DRL may not take away enough riders from the Yonge-Bloor interchange. The only people who will transfer to the DRL from Scarborough are those whose final destination is on the DRL or at the DRL / YUS interchange (King?). No-one will switch to the DRL and switch again to YUS to reach their destination. If a busy enough station is not chosen as the interchange, we may not get enough people switching to the DRL.
With the Ford plan, or an elevated equivalent, along with a DRL to Eglinton, I believe more people Scarborough will switch at the top of the DRL since it would be a 2 transfer trip and not 3. The transfers would happen at the new Eglinton station, which could easily be designed for the loads. It may be harder to turn Pape into a major interchange since it is already built up in the area.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
And would the Stouffville Line have a second Lawrence East and Ellesmere Station as well or those kinds of details aren't made up yet...