Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[kEiThZ]

I just think if we are going to extend it east we should West as well...

Scope creep. It kills projects. The Stintz proposal is a reasonable compromise across all the corridors. If you wanna go west on Sheppard, some other corridor will lose out.

 

[nfitz]

The Stintz proposal is a reasonable compromise across all the corridors.

$1-billion for a 2-km Sheppard extension is reasonable? The entire 12-km Sheppard East LRT project didn't cost much more than that.

 

[JoeParez]

wish we could have double decker busses instead or artics as a way to handle the additional capacity... lower the road under bridges please to get them to fit.

I think the TTC is planning on buying arctics for their next order - I read it somewhere on Steve Munro's blog.

Or maybe smallspy can shed some light on this as well..

 

[kEiThZ]

They can run the Finch East BRT to the new Victoria Park North station, since the majority of the ridership should be from east of Victoria Park Av. Seneca could be served by a shuttle from Don Mills or a diversion of the Don Mills bus into Seneca. With that, they don't even have to touch the 404/Finch bridge.

Exactly. That 2-stop extension will achieve some amazing operational effects on the network.

The main debate though is whether Rob Ford is willing to compromise on Eglinton to get something on Sheppard. I don't think he'd mind the bus lanes on Finch because it's just not that much of an impact visually. A few more buses. No streetcars frustrating drivers. But compromising on Eglinton might be difficult.

 

[kEiThZ]

$1-billion for a 2-km Sheppard extension is reasonable? The entire 12-km Sheppard East LRT project didn't cost much more than that.

It came pretty close to a billion bucks. And was still truncated to Morningside. God only knows what would have happened once they started laying track. Not to mention the addition of stops slowed the line down before the first shovel too.

Let's face it, fanatics like yourself will not be happy with anything but a full restoration of Transit City. You will never see a subway you like unless it achieves Tokyo like ridership. You're as bad as Rob Ford with his insistence on underground everything. Just with a different opinion.

Personally, I think Stintz is finally starting to offer porridge that's just right. This plan preserves the option to build on Sheppard as the northern crosstown. It may take 50 years but it will happen. And then people will wonder how they lived without it. The plan does what's adequate for Finch. Nobody was ever going to ride that LRT across half the city anyway. And the mere fact that the Sheppard subway starts at Vic Park and avoids the 404 bottle neck may well knock 10 mins off the Sheppard and Finch bus rides. And for the LRT fans, Eglinton goes back to what it used to be.

Out of curiosity, you once said, you would support an extention to Vic Park. Why the opposition now?

 

[sixrings]

It came pretty close to a billion bucks. And was still truncated to Morningside. God only knows what would have happened once they started laying track. Not to mention the addition of stops slowed the line down before the first shovel too.

Let's face it, fanatics like yourself will not be happy with anything but a full restoration of Transit City. You will never see a subway you like unless it achieves Tokyo like ridership. You're as bad as Rob Ford with his insistence on underground everything. Just with a different opinion.

Personally, I think Stintz is finally starting to offer porridge that's just right. This plan preserves the option to build on Sheppard as the northern crosstown. It may take 50 years but it will happen. And then people will wonder how they lived without it. The plan does what's adequate for Finch. Nobody was ever going to ride that LRT across half the city anyway. And the mere fact that the Sheppard subway starts at Vic Park and avoids the 404 bottle neck may well knock 10 mins off the Sheppard and Finch bus rides. And for the LRT fans, Eglinton goes back to what it used to be.

Out of curiosity, you once said, you would support an extention to Vic Park. Why the opposition now?

Wont a above ground LRT on eglinton crossing the DVP cause a similar bottleneck... Shouldnt the LRT on eglinton dip underneith at this intersection as well...

 

[kEiThZ]

Wont a above ground LRT on eglinton crossing the DVP cause a similar bottleneck... Shouldnt the LRT on eglinton dip underneith at this intersection as well...

How so? Why would an LRT on Eglinton across the DVP cause a similar bottleneck? The bottleneck on Sheppard is kinda unique. It happens because of the width of the bridge, because the subway terminus is right there and because a busy attraction (Fairvew Mall) is there too. Eglinton Ave East across the DVP does not face a similar situation.

 

[nfitz]

It came pretty close to a billion bucks.

$1.1 billion was the budget Metrolinx amount, shortly before cancellation - that includes the Agincourt grade separation, currently under construction.

Let's face it, fanatics like yourself will not be happy with anything but a full restoration of Transit City.

Fanatics? Questioning why it's okay to convert subway to surface LRT on a piece of Eglinton East with 10,000 riders per hour is reasonable, but asking the same question of a piece of Sheppard with about 5,000 riders per hour is fanatical?

You will never see a subway you like unless it achieves Tokyo like ridership.

Surely you mean Tokyo-like ridership not Tokyo like ridership. Is hyphenation that difficult?

Out of curiosity, you once said, you would support an extention to Vic Park. Why the opposition now?

$1 billion ... I assumed it could be done for $500 to $600 million. If that's the price tag, then you might as well just take the same amount of money and build 12 km of rapid transit to Meadowvale, rather than 2 km of subway.

 

[sixrings]

Why the NEED for the consumers stop??????????
The Don Mills to Vic Park distance would be about the same as the yonge to Bayview spacing and a tad longer then the leslie to don mills spacing.

 

[leopetr]

Why the NEED for the consumers stop??????????
The Don Mills to Vic Park distance would be about the same as the yonge to Bayview spacing

And there should have been a Willowdale station between Yonge and Bayview. Provision for one exists but NIMBYs prevented construction.

 

[sixrings]

Im just suggesting that if it costs 300 million for the station that money is better spent heading one stop east to Warden or west towards bathurst.

 

[leopetr]

Im just suggesting that if it costs 300 million for the station that money is better spent heading one stop east to Warden or west towards bathurst.

I don't know the exact numbers, but I'd be surprised if a Consumers Park stop turns out to be any more than $100m. The big money would go to Victoria Park, as that's where they'd need a major bus terminal.

 

[sixrings]

if thats true why not add in willowdale station for 100-150 million... the nimbyism argument has to have been muted relatively since all the development in the past 10 years.

 

[kEiThZ]

Surely you mean Tokyo-like ridership not Tokyo like ridership. Is hyphenation that difficult?

Grammar policing. Really? That's what you're reduced to?

Fanatics? Questioning why it's okay to convert subway to surface LRT on a piece of Eglinton East with 10,000 riders per hour is reasonable, but asking the same question of a piece of Sheppard with about 5,000 riders per hour is fanatical?

You know exactly what I mean. You (and several others who share your doctrinaire mindset) complain at every single hint of compromise. Heaven forbid, we get a reasonable compromise solution that doesn't apply a one-size-fits-none solution to the entire 416. The purpose of Sheppard has always been about that just the 5000 pphpd that's there today. It's part of a long term network build that will offer a reasonable alternative to the Bloor-Danforth in getting across town. Those of us who support it, understand the long term vision behind this. The completion of Sheppard (whenever that is), will enable transit to actually compete with the car for the whole 416. No Scarborough resident will ever have to drive York U or Yorkdale mall. Transit could actually be nearly as fast, or even faster, depending on traffic. Two stops today. But in time, when they finish it, the impact on the city will be huge.

$1 billion ... I assumed it could be done for $500 to $600 million. If that's the price tag, then you might as well just take the same amount of money and build 12 km of rapid transit to Meadowvale, rather than 2 km of subway.

It was 400 million for the LRT tunnel if I am not mistaken. And that had no underground stations. Toss in 2 underground subways stations at about $100 million each as a minimum (and likely more for a terminus at VP). Add in the cost of tail tracks, property acquisition, etc. I don't think billion is way out there (though still a tad high on my count....I figured in the $700-$800 million range). That said, if they bridge this gap, further expansion becomes a whole lot easier. And I strongly suspect that's what those who oppose the idea don't like about it. Heck, the city itself could build a stop a year if it was willing to raise the taxes to do it.

 

[nfitz]

Grammar policing. Really? That's what you're reduced to?

Did it look like my response was reduced to that? Really? Simply apologize and move on ...

The purpose of Sheppard has always been about that just the 5000 pphpd that's there today. It's part of a long term network build that will offer a reasonable alternative to the Bloor-Danforth in getting across town.

You think Sheppard is a reasonable alternative to Bloor-Danforth? Why? Both Sheppard and Eglinton would leave Scarborough Centre ... but Eglinton will attract most of the riders.

And I don't know why you think such a compromised plan is a good thing. It's a simple thing to look at. If you've got a $billiion to throw at transit on Sheppard, which is of greater benefit. A 2-km extension to Victoria Park, or 12-km of LRT to Meadowvale.

That said, if they bridge this gap, further expansion becomes a whole lot easier.

Further expansion? The numbers aren't high enough to support subway in the first place. Ridership east of Victoria Park is even lower. Why do you support flushing money down the toilet like this, when it could be of more benefit to more people elsewhere? Let's stop building these gravy trains.