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Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

It seems pretty straight forward to me.
1)The line was designed for use both above and underground.
2)The plan got foolishly changed by the Mayor.
3)Metrolinx is probably waiting for the next mayor of Toronto (assuming it's not Ford again) to go back to the initial plan of building the parts of Eglinton that don't need to be underground above ground.
4)It's technically not the most expensive system with the lowest capacity they could use. That would be a genuine, Bona fide, Electrified, Six-car underground Monorail!
 
kEiThZ said:
Yeah. I don't think Eglinton needs to be an HRT subway. If it ever reaches that capacity, non-local passengers can be diverted by building out Sheppard and Finch.
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I really wish this build sheppard nonsense would stop.

As ssiguy2 states "the whole advantage of LRT over other mass transit is that it can work along existing roadways and rail ROW where it does not need to be completely grade separated. This line is going to be completely grade separated so the advantage of LRT is completely gone. Toronto is building a system with lower capacity at a higher price with trains with shorter life expectancy than the other 3 major systems"

So to me this would mean it does matter if capacity is not there right now and that LRT is the more expensive chose and with the disadvantages that has been pointed out.
 
Palma said:
I really wish this build sheppard nonsense would stop.

As ssiguy2 states "the whole advantage of LRT over other mass transit is that it can work along existing roadways and rail ROW where it does not need to be completely grade separated. This line is going to be completely grade separated so the advantage of LRT is completely gone. Toronto is building a system with lower capacity at a higher price with trains with shorter life expectancy than the other 3 major systems"

So to me this would mean it does matter if capacity is not there right now and that LRT is the more expensive chose and with the disadvantages that has been pointed out.
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Well, it didn't need to be this way if a certain mayor had not cancelled a certain plan. Anyhow, the current situation is certainly worse than the original, and redesigning it as a subway line would push it back by a considerable amount of time.
 
The best feature of the current plan is that it gets the LRT foot in the door.

Once the LRT facilities are in place, doing in-median expansion on other routes like Jane, Finch, and Don Mills will be a much easier sell, as the large fixed cost of the maintenance facility will be done.

Also, whomever believes that SkyTrain would require any less investment in maintenance facilities does not seem to realize that the McCowan yard is horrifically out of date, and would need to be completely rebuilt if it were to ever maintain new SkyTrain vehicles.
 
Markster said:
The best feature of the current plan is that it gets the LRT foot in the door.

Once the LRT facilities are in place, doing in-median expansion on other routes like Jane, Finch, and Don Mills will be a much easier sell, as the large fixed cost of the maintenance facility will be done.

Also, whomever believes that SkyTrain would require any less investment in maintenance facilities does not seem to realize that the McCowan yard is horrifically out of date, and would need to be completely rebuilt if it were to ever maintain new SkyTrain vehicles.
Click to expand...

At this point, I hope that they stick with LRT, but that they rethink the western and eastern legs of the line. From what I understand, Metrolinx was never keen on at-grade in the east and west, but they weren't keen on the tunnelled east leg either.

I hope Metrolinx uses this opportunity to push for what they really wanted in the first place. I hope it is less costly grade-separation.
 
I think LRT if done right would be great for Toronto.

Neither the original Eglinton plan nor the current Eglinton plan are LRT done right.

The original plan was okay, but it suffered from lack of grade separation outside the tunnel.

The current plan is okay, but it suffers by trying to be a subway but using overly expensive LRT hardware.

That said, the LRT planned for Sheppard East was even worse.

I'm all for LRT. I'm not all for simply more streetcars in the city, which take forever to get anywhere.

And for those of you who say public transit doesn't need to be fast, well, I have nothing to say to you as I drive in my car.
 
elevated rail! like the sky train. someone needs to consider this. i know metrolinx floated it for a while. it costs somewhere on the lower end between an at-grade tram system and a subway - but gives truly rapid transit.
 
Elevated LRT through the eastern and western legs of Eglinton looks like something the people can agree on. I really don't see spending billions tunneling through sections like the Golden Mile as a wise investment.

IMO, Eglinton needs to be a completely grade-separated line. Though I can't say the same about other TC routes, namely Sheppard. Street-grade is fast enough for fringe areas.
 
44 North said:
Elevated LRT through the eastern and western legs of Eglinton looks like something the people can agree on. I really don't see spending billions tunneling through sections like the Golden Mile as a wise investment.

IMO, Eglinton needs to be a completely grade-separated line. Though I can't say the same about other TC routes, namely Sheppard. Street-grade is fast enough for fringe areas.
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Sheppard west of McCowan is hardly fringe. It's comparable to (if not denser than) Eglinton east of Leaside. So both sections could use a completely grade-seperated transit option.
Looking at the population density of the ridings, Scarborough Southwest (3297/km2) and Scarborough Centre (3724/km2) - both have Englinton East running through part of it, actually have lower density than Scarborough-Agincourt (4474/km2).
 
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Employment density plays an important role in dictating transit investment. But yes, parts of Eglinton have piss poor density; our valleys/park areas accentuate this. Though Eg also has pockets of very high density (e.g Flemingdon and Thorncliffe). On the whole though, it's an important route worthy of grade separation...Sheppard, not so much.

Sheppard is fringe because at Yonge it's almost 15km from the lake. It's also north of the 401.
 
44 North said:
Employment density plays an important role in dictating transit investment. But yes, parts of Eglinton have piss poor density; our valleys/park areas accentuate this. Though Eg also has pockets of very high density (e.g Flemingdon and Thorncliffe). On the whole though, it's an important route worthy of grade separation...Sheppard, not so much.

Sheppard is fringe because at Yonge it's almost 15km from the lake. It's also north of the 401.
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Just because you keep calling it a "fringe" does not make it a fringe area. This is not your Toronto from 1965 when Bloor was the main east-west avenue, times have changed and many many people have migrated northerly. I am not saying Sheppard is equal to Bloor but what i am saying is that Sheppard is no longer a fringe either.

Ironically, the initial Sheppard Line traverses through some of the lowest-density stretches along the avenue. Other than the cluster around Yonge...
*Low-density Willowdale, Did not even justify a station
*Bayview was nothing, a site of a mall about to be abandoned
*Leslie was a hospital, an IKEA, and a Canadian Tire warehouse
*Finally at its terminus Don Mills do you see some real density.

Of course all the changed and now each subway stop has become a density hub.

Contrast this to currently dense clusters along Sheppard with no subway.
* Victoria Park Employment Lands
* Warden contains some density but has potential for so much more
* Birchmount is a super-dense Apartment complex cluster similar to Don Mills
* Kennedy is another residental cluster + retail as well
* Agincourt GO Station will be a major interchange after GO All-Day operation.

Then the rest of sheppard is low density...Especially east of McCowan its pure 905. Add to that the proposed Scarborough RT extension to Progress & Sheppard and you have No need for LRT EVER.

If such a low density stretch of Sheppard can transform into what we see today, what will a currently dense stretch of Sheppard look like?
 
Toronto1 said:
Eglinton does have pockets of high density, but Thorncliffe isn't one of them. Thorncliffe is on Overlea Boulevard which, due to the presence of the valley, is nowhere near practical walking distance to Eglinton Avenue.

Flemingdon exists along Eglinton Avenue, but its main axis is Don Mills Road. Again, most people living in Flemingdon Park would have to take a bus to reach Eglinton in a reasonable amount of time, if they didn't drive.
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And an Eastern DRL that ends at Eglinton would serve both those area's better than an Eglinton Line would.
 
accura407 said:
Ironically, the initial Sheppard Line traverses through some of the lowest-density stretches along the avenue. Other than the cluster around Yonge...
Of course all the changed and now each subway stop has become a density hub.
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Density hub is stretching it a bit. Bessarion surely isn't a hub of anything.

accura407 said:
If such a low density stretch of Sheppard can transform into what we see today, what will a currently dense stretch of Sheppard look like?
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You're right, Sheppard between Yonge and Don Mills is inexplicably a dense urban thoroughfare. I was driving along that stretch mid-afternoon the other day and I maybe saw five people walking. I might've seen a cyclist, too!

So what's your argument? That the subway should only be built to spur redevelopment? That only through almost two decades of rezoning and forced densification that the subway is justifiable? Maybe all the rezoning and condos are a result of the city trying to get a return on a poor investment?
 
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