Markham World on Yonge | ?m | 31s | Liberty Development | Kirkor Architects

[scarberiankhatru]

I think this area of Toronto is still very much in flux. It's hard to say which community will be dominant in the future or whether it will continue. By having a specific mall for each group would be a mistake. Best to just have a mall out there, and see what happens IMO.

No, it would not be a mistake...remember that the only way a Persian or Korean mini-mall would ever get built is by Persian or Korean business forces. I'm not talking about rival ethnic Yorkdales with themed cladding, just one or two larger versions of the strip malls that already exist but will eventually be eliminated by redevelopment. These business complexes (like the Persian plaza at Yonge & Centre) would be scattered by redevelopment and might not reform without an entrepreneur with some kind of ethnic mini-mall vision. The larger restaurants and food retailers, the services (lawyers and whatnot) located above them, etc., will certainly not all show up in the 500 sq.ft leased cubicles of whatever Tridel and Menkes condos that replace the sites. The Korean and Persian businesses already draw patrons from fairly long distances and don't rely solely on locals and a flashy mini-mall or two would likely be a boon for their business, for Yonge, and perhaps even for tourism, though some balance between organic authenticity and branded packaging is necessary.

It would be good if such a thing happened, but it would take a TON of expropriation for it to work. I don't know if the city has much stomech for this. And of course once we get to the railroad tracks, that's about it.

Actually, it could be done with very little expropriation, especially if the service roads follow streets like Lariviere or Dumont and don't carve new midblock paths. Besides, some expropriation is a pre-/co-requisite for any degree of redevelopment beyond a few townhouses (which would invariably trigger the creation of things like additional parkland). There won't be much redevelopment north of the rail corridor. Hilda and Henderson already cross it and connections from the service roads to these connections will likely be adequate, so it's not a big deal if the service roads don't go that far. Also, the developers would be paying for much - if not all - of the property for the service roads and adjacent parkland.

I believe there would be less opposition to high-rises in this area, if only because so many have already been planned, and because those massive apartments just south-west of Yonge/Steeles have been around for 25+ years.

There would be some token opposition to high-rises, if only because there's always token resistance to tall buildings and their inhabitants and their cars, but the real opposition might show up when the city tries to define the boundary of the 'Centerpoint/Newtonbrook Secondary Plan' or whatever it'd be called. Some property owners would want to be inside of it, some would want to stay outside of it.

 

[Epi]

No, it would not be a mistake...remember that the only way a Persian or Korean mini-mall would ever get built is by Persian or Korean business forces.

Well if they want to build it, I guess it would happen. Thought you meant like Libery should build a persian mall or something into the base of their condos

Biggest problem is, this area is pretty expensive to build on, and unlike the Chinese malls, they don't have billionaire property developers really interested in Toronto from their homelands, and even then I doubt Chinese malls would have developed in such an expensive area as Yonge.

Actually, it could be done with very little expropriation, especially if the service roads follow streets like Lariviere or Dumont and don't carve new midblock paths. Besides, some expropriation is a pre-/co-requisite for any degree of redevelopment beyond a few townhouses (which would invariably trigger the creation of things like additional parkland). There won't be much redevelopment north of the rail corridor. Hilda and Henderson already cross it and connections from the service roads to these connections will likely be adequate, so it's not a big deal if the service roads don't go that far. Also, the developers would be paying for much - if not all - of the property for the service roads and adjacent parkland.

Those roads are pretty small roads. I think if we were really to create proper 4-lane service roads, the entire area would have to completely change. That's a ton of houses that would have to be changed. Remember in NYCC, a lot of that land was always marked off for development (no houses). Here if you look at the map on the east side, there's a ton of cul du sacs and established communities that would reel at a sudden 4-lane service road in the midst of their communities. The west side I agree could be done easier as it looks like land has already been set aside for that purpose. That and Larivere is much closer to Yonge then Dumont. Perhaps in another 40 years, but not in the forseeable future I don't think.

I'm not sure though if it would extend north of Steeles as that may block/impair the underground entrances to the new proposed Steeles terminal.

There would be some token opposition to high-rises, if only because there's always token resistance to tall buildings and their inhabitants and their cars, but the real opposition might show up when the city tries to define the boundary of the 'Centerpoint/Newtonbrook Secondary Plan' or whatever it'd be called. Some property owners would want to be inside of it, some would want to stay outside of it.

Oh of course there will be opposition. Well at least in York Region our politicians are so corrupt it doesn't matter LOL.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Biggest problem is, this area is pretty expensive to build on, and unlike the Chinese malls, they don't have billionaire property developers really interested in Toronto from their homelands, and even then I doubt Chinese malls would have developed in such an expensive area as Yonge.

That's not a problem...mini-malls don't cost a billion dollars and 'expensive areas' don't mean the drywall and electricity costs more. If the area was very expensive, it wouldn't be filled with strip plazas. Yonge & Steeles is actually a bargain. Chinese malls won't bother with Yonge until strips like Kennedy and Hwy 7 are filled first and until/unless the Yonge area has a Chinese majority. Thornhill and Willowdale are not part of the Great Mall of China.

Those roads are pretty small roads. I think if we were really to create proper 4-lane service roads, the entire area would have to completely change. That's a ton of houses that would have to be changed. Remember in NYCC, a lot of that land was always marked off for development (no houses). Here if you look at the map on the east side, there's a ton of cul du sacs and established communities that would reel at a sudden 4-lane service road in the midst of their communities. The west side I agree could be done easier as it looks like land has already been set aside for that purpose. That and Larivere is much closer to Yonge then Dumont. Perhaps in another 40 years, but not in the forseeable future I don't think.

I'm not sure though if it would extend north of Steeles as that may block/impair the underground entrances to the new proposed Steeles terminal.

Again, developers would be buying most of these properties (the city would likely only step in and expropriate to speed up the process), and if they follow roads like Dumont, they would not need to acquire very many houses unless the city wants to build parks or schools or whatever else adjacent to them. It doesn't even matter how many houses have to be changed because these houses will be redeveloped soon, anyway. Any redevelopment scheme that goes beyond the Avenues plan (that goes beyond properties with Yonge addresses) will invariably require some kind of road grid changes, additional parkland, etc. Even developments just on Yonge could force the grid to be altered to prevent through-traffic from penetrating bucolic side streets like Pleasant or Wedgewood. Actually, the established community residents you mentioned would be actively calling for the kinds of road alterations that consume houses.

No, that land in North York Centre was not always marked off for development...the plans were created decades after the houses and streets were first built and similar plans could be created dealing with the Centerpoint/Newtonbrook area. Similar plans will be created, or the Avenues study underway will morph into something larger. It would be idiotic for the city to not permit the block or two of houses closest to Yonge to be redeveloped, especially because of the proposed subway extension and because Willowdale houses constitute some of the most unstable building stock in the entire city.

No land has been set aside in the west because Beecroft is only slated to be extended to Drewry. Whatever land you see in Google Maps is probably going to become a townhouse complex. Lariviere and Dumont and both one block from Yonge but they're not always the same distance from Yonge because side streets in the area are parallel/perpendicular to the E/W concession roads, meaning Yonge cuts through the grid and sheers off blocks to the east as it travels north (about one block per concession).

Hopefully, sanity will prevail and Steeles station will be modified...service roads would be an ideal way to force such an issue, especially if they intentionally interfere.

Oh of course there will be opposition. Well at least in York Region our politicians are so corrupt it doesn't matter LOL.

In Toronto, there's often more opposition from councillors and city staff than from actual residents.

 

[marcus_a_j]

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but does anyone know of any applications for the (former, I think) Roy Foss dealerships across the street?

 

[Disparishun]

Galleria will apparently be sticking around to anchor the retail, at least based on Mr. Yu's website:

On Site Grocery (KOREAN) - 40,000 sq. ft at the basement of the retail building (retail building is connected to the Residential condos)

 

[Solaris]

Scaled Model

From Myles Burke Architectural Models' website:

 

[Carter]

The sales center has been taken down and hording has gone up on Yonge street in front of the site. The stores still look to be up as of right now in the plaza.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

They're broken ground. Galleria is moving across the street to the old Chapters, though I believe they still plan to move back....

http://www.yorkregion.com/news/article/902554--massive-world-on-yonge-has-broken-ground

* By Kim Zarzour

Massive World on Yonge has broken ground

World on Yonge. Construction has begun on development near Steeles Avenue and Yonge Street.
Shovels hit the ground this week marking the start of construction for the new World on Yonge project near Steeles Avenue and Yonge Street.

The project, by Liberty Development, is being billed as the largest single-phase residential, commercial and retail development in the Greater Toronto Area.

The 10-acre site will house a 20-storey office and hotel complex - York Region's tallest non-residential tower Â*- along with retail space and residential condominiums.

"This project is extremely important to the development and growth of Thornhill and the Town of Markham," said Thornhill MPP Peter Shurman, who took part in Wednesday's ground-breaking ceremony with federal, provincial, regional and municipal leaders.

Liberty vice president and counsel, Marco Filice, said the transit-oriented, mixed-use community will be in keeping with federal, provincial and regional development objectives, as well as those of the local community.

The project "supports the federal government's commitment to expand and improve public transit options, including an extended subway line, in the GTA," he said, "and it amplifies efforts to intensify retail and commercial uses along Yonge Street."

World on Yonge, located at the corner of Yonge and Meadowview Avenue, will include a new park, retail space at ground level, a landscaped urban courtyard, 10 floors of office suites and more than 100 hotel units on the top nine floors.

There are four residential towers planned for the site; the first two towers are 85 per cent sold out, Mr. Filice said. Suites range from $287,000 to $686,000.

Mr. Shurman said the development is expected to create more than 1,200 post-construction jobs.

"Integrated transportation hubs within buildings are becoming the norm in many jurisdictions such as London, New York, Washington DC," he said. "Liberty Development is jumping the curve and coming out ahead of the game. I am proud that they have chosen the riding of Thornhill to construct this new landmark of the future."

The developers say they are pursuing green initiatives and energy-saving opportunities including energy and water conservation and green roof technologies.

Area residents' groups will be watching the development with caution as concerns remain over how the development will impact Thornhill's aging infrastructure.

"It's a huge development," said Marilyn Ginsberg, past chairperson of Grandview Area Residents Association. "The infrastructure in general is old and out of date and inadequate."

A little over half of Liberty's planned development at Yonge and Steeles has been approved, she said, with the remaining buildings, which would face Doncaster or Meadowview, on hold awaiting mass transit approval.

"We don't have a subway and there isn't even a subway on the backburner," she said. The residents group wants to ensure project completion does not get the go-ahead without public transit.

Galleria Supermarket, meanwhile, is moving its popular Korean grocery store to a new location across Yonge Street to make way for the Liberty development.

The 48,000-square-foot supermarket closed its doors at 7171 Yonge St. last week, according to Chris Younger, manager of business development. The company hopes to open its new store across the street at the old Chapters store location, 7040 Yonge St., by the end of the month.

The relocation process has been "interesting", Mr. Younger said, "but the new place is going to be a great store" and will benefit from the large development going in across the street.

 

[canoe]

Pics. of demolition.

 

[Chuck]

Craziness. Worked at Hy and Zels when I was younger, and always had a feeling that that plaza's days were numbered. I wouldn't be surprised if one day, North York Centre will essentially run up to Highway 7.

Due to the current fare arrangement, this development is actually somewhat transit unfriendly. It's at the last southbound bus stop before Steeles, and the first northbound bus stop after. Any transit trips between there and Toronto will require a windswept walk to Steeles, as YRT would require an extra $3.00 fare to spend approximately 1 minute on a bus. Distance wise, it's the equivalent of living at Yonge and Wellesley, but having to walk to College to board the subway even though a station technically exists at your doorstep.

Maybe it's time to extend the TTC's Yonge bus to slightly north of Royal Orchard, but not allow free transfers to YRT. The last stop would be barely farther from Yonge and Sheppard than is Don Mills Station by comparison.

 

[Edward Skira]

The mall comes down.

The entire complex as seen looking south west.

The retail component.

The 10 storey office component with 9 storeys of hotel on top. This will anchor the northwest portion of the complex.

2 of the 4 condo towers.

Looking northeast from Yonge Street.

 

[neuhaus]

This image suggests that Galleria Market may be located at the bottom of the mall's atrium, which is a very unique and interesting concept. It would be cool to watch the activity of grocery shopping from above. I don't know how this will work logistically with a retailer with no ceiling (security wise).

I too remember this strip mall when growing up (Hy's & Zel's, National Sports, etc.).

 

[Edward Skira]

A grocery below is nothing new. Loblaws at Empress Walk and Longos at MLSE come to mind. Also Metro at College Park.

 

[taal]

Looks great, a step up to say the least!

But I think the two other condos are later phases ?

My only hesitation really is the indoor mall concept ... believe it or not, Markham is full of these - a lot scattered on hi-way 7.
I've never been the biggest fan of these.

We'll see might work out fine - particularly if it has a grocery store.

 

[Torontovibe]

How close is this to Steeles? I remember hearing they were going to tear down that mall (Centre Point Mall?) and build a large condo & retail development. If that is still in the works, that area is going to be quite busy. It will need a subway.