Brampton GO Station: Proposed Development (if you hate GO surface lots...)

[TOareaFan]

Build a mega huge parking structure at Bramalea station. That place is never going to be attractive for any other uses. Let the car addicts park there, rather than the valuable land in the middle of Brampton.

Will people, though, drive from all over Brampton to that one station (it is a very large city..geographically speaking....with serious traffic congestion issues)? Or will those that used to drive to Brampton and park just say "to heck with it, I am in my car anyway let's keep going"?

Use me (may not be the best example as I am only an ocassional GO user but here goes).....In rush hour I can drive to Brampton GO and park in 10 minutes.....combine that with the train ride and the walk from Union to my office and I +/- break even in terms of time (door to door) on my commute. The rush hour drive to Bramalea station always takes at least 30 minutes and sometimes more....those 30 minutes (less, what, 7 minutes for the shorter train ride) means that more often than not the commute by GO will take longer than simply driving to work.

Similar effect by taking BT to the train. By the time you walk to the bus stop and take the bus and transfer and walk from the bus terminal to the train station....the eplanner suggests leaving 25 - 30 minutes to arrive at the GO station.....so an additional 15 to 20 minutes. I do this on ocassion and have found the eplanner to be generous in its timings but even if it is 10 - 15 minutes it still sways the total trip time in favour of the private car.

On a board and in discussions it is easy to throw out lines like "drive and park at Bramalea" but we do need to be concerned that the unintended consequence of developing the GO parking lot at Brampton might be to push people away from the GO service. I don't know how many people it would push away......but in a world where we are trying to convince more people in the suburbs to use GO (and where we are making significant investments to that end) it is a decision that cannot be made lightly.

 

[Dan416]

I'm forced to agree with TOareaFan. I just can't imagine that many people using public transit to get to the GO station. GO stations aren't subway stations, they're very spread out, and even the buses that serve them don't do so directly in many cases. I don't see any use in punishing people who drive to GO. Reward people who take the bus. The carrot approach is much preferable to the stick approach in this case.

 

[RedRocket191]

I disagree that we can't get there. It's a matter of providing the service, and I would argue that the reason it doesn't happen today is because the service is lacking. Having said that, we do need to have some parking at the station - but it should be hidden away in a structure.

 

[kettal]

I've always been fascinated by Brampton GO station, it is one of the few GO stations with urban potential. I've never used it, and I've never lived or worked in or near Brampton, so this is an outsiders take.

There is a good network of minor roads and trails around this GO station. The potential for bike-and-ride here is very high. If you live in a suburb served by Voddens Street West, Royal Orchard Drive, Murray Street, Fletcher's Creek, Mill Street, Clarence Street, or Centre street, cycling can be a very attractive option, as in: does not involve riding along any major road.

The obstacles are: people are unfamiliar with the minor roads and trail network in the area (they think using a major road is the only option), or they are lazy, or something else I can't think of right now.

So in conclusion, most residents to whom Brampton Station actually is the closest station probably could bike there in under 20 minutes, but they don't for some reason.

 

[SlickFranky]

I'm forced to agree with TOareaFan. I just can't imagine that many people using public transit to get to the GO station. GO stations aren't subway stations, they're very spread out, and even the buses that serve them don't do so directly in many cases. I don't see any use in punishing people who drive to GO. Reward people who take the bus. The carrot approach is much preferable to the stick approach in this case.

As has been made clear, people like to drive. The 600+ parking spots are full before even the 3rd train comes. So how do the riders of trains 3 and 4 get to the station, since the lot's already full? Ridership on this line isn't limited by the parking lot sizes, it's limited by the number and frequency of trains. There is pent-up demand whether parking exists or not.

I'm a bit confused...is making people pay for parking 'punishing' them?

And one reason GO stations often aren't served directly by buses might be because they're on the far side of 15 acre parking lots.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Where exactly would people go if their precious free parking were to be taken away? Surely they wouldn't spend even more money than GO could ever hope to charge them for parking and drive all the way to work and then pay exorbitant parking stall fees, would they?

I really think that the idea that free parking must be provided in order to encourage people to take public transit is grossly overstated. Surely, people aren't daft enough to pay more just because if they can't get it free they may as well go all out? I'm not even talking about only the increased costs here of driving all the way to work but also of the increased time spent, not to mention the stress of sitting in traffic.

Do you guys honestly believe that without free parking, people are going to abandon GO Transit en masse? Or is this just some seemingly irrational fear you guys cling to, as it seems?

Another question: after the TTC started charging all users for their lots at certain subway stations, did TTC ridership or even use of these parking lots decrease? This isn't a rhetorical question (at least as far as lot use is concerned...I know ridership didn't go down), I don't know the answer and am wondering if anyone here does.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I'm just really confused as to how free parking and promotion of trasit use go hand-in-hand. Please enlighten me.

 

[RedRocket191]

I'm just really confused as to how free parking and promotion of trasit use go hand-in-hand. Please enlighten me.

I think it's a general belief that the status quo is set in stone, and changing it means that people will simply do what the perceive to be easiest (which is drive). What works for downtown isn't going to work in exactly the same way as in Brampton or Pickering, but we can't say "it will NEVER work."

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Without free parking, some will just drive into the city. However, I suspect as many, if not more, will try to find the next closest free parking spot...anything within a 5-10 minute walk. They'll trudge through mud or squeeze through a hole in a fence or leave their car in a plaza lot all day. They'll regularly risk parking tickets that far exceed the parking lot charges.

Of course, we don't have especially detailed figures regarding how many of the station's users are actually driving themselves there. How many get dropped off, or take Brampton Transit, or bike, or walk? Add in those who will freely pay for parking (yes, there's some) and those willing to walk over hot coals to find free parking in whatever stealthy nearby lots or streets they can find and the percentage of people that would be upset by parking fees may end up being rather trivial. Noisy, maybe, but trivial (as most noisy groups are).

 

[SunriseChampion]

Aha! So people are generally cheap and daft or some combination thereof? And I had more hope for humanity; especially those living nearest to me.

Typically Canadian, I suppose, to be shit-scared of upsetting the balance provided by the status quo in the pursuit of higher ideals so as not to upset a few characters.

Sometimes, the best way to get people to do what you want is to smack them up-side the head. Terminating the GO Transit free parking/waste of space arsenal is a good start.
It really doesn't do anything to promote transit use, only taking away from it and it encourages people to drive.

 

[jwill]

A hotel and conference centre would have to be quite large to take up all of that parking lot. Of course it will have some useless 'park' or other contrived public space, but there should be room for a small parking structure to hold a few hundred cars.

If the station loses some parking, it will survive. Its has decent local transit links, and must even have some walk-ins. Either way, good to see more development up there.

 

[kettal]

I always say: GO should introduce a parking fee, but lower the ticket fare on the same day. People won't know if they should celebrate or complain.

 

[Dan416]

I'm sure GO will find some way to keep a good amount of free parking at Brampton GO. It's very easy for people in the 416 to scoff at the idea of free parking, but has anyone paid attention to Mississauga trying to charge for parking on certain streets in MCC? Needless to say, it hasn't gone over well, with residents or merchants.

I never said people's patterns can't change. But there's no way no how in this dimension that GO will have no parking at Brampton GO. They may reduce the amount of parking, or increase the amount of reserved parking available, but you can't hold downtown Brampton to the same standard as downtown Toronto. Maybe when the Georgetown line has all-day two-way half-hourly service, you won't have to rely on parking so much, but for now, people have to get there somehow. And if Brampton Transit is anything like Mississauga Transit, it's not an option for a lot of people unless you like to stand around waiting for a bus for half an hour, only to miss your train or bus and have to wait another half hour (if you're lucky).

 

[Dan416]

I always say: GO should introduce a parking fee, but lower the ticket fare on the same day. People won't know if they should celebrate or complain.

I think this would be an interesting approach. It could work.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

If the only thing done is having free parking removed (and not, say, improving local bus routes), the only result will be lower ridership, lower revenues for GO, and annoyed ex-customers clogging up the highways. Probably not significantly lower, but definitely lower to some degree, though population growth and other transit improvements would quickly cancel this out. Getting people to the GO train some other way than driving alone in their car is best, but some will continue to drive and they should be dealt with reasonably. Removing free parking and saying "tough" will only be perceived as a war on cars - and, by extension on their drivers - because that's exactly what it is when you say it like that. The media will pick up on it and so on, even though it's likely that only a fairly small percentage of current Brampton station users would actually get annoyed enough by fees to stop riding. Maybe everyone will just shift to other stations...are the two closest stations' lots typically full?

As for people who pay at TTC lots, they seem to be a somewhat narrow group - people from the 905 who are going into the central city but not within a few blocks of Union station...driving from random suburban spots to a paid parking lot at a subway station is both cost- and time-effective for them or they wouldn't be doing it. The TTC is actually lowering their parking lot rates.