Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[jordanmkasla2009]

No significant change from the inaugural trip so far, unfortunately (16m38s) (Or perhaps, fortunately, that the inaugural trip was not significantly slower than advertised like line 6 had.)

I am interested to hear what exactly was changed with the signals, and if there is already a measurable effect as of today on line speeds.

So far it’s just moving the left turn phase to after the east-west straight phase (currently it seems to be programmed statically based on time of day). They can’t dynamic changes until they get their order of LIDAR detectors in and reprogram the controllers to use them. Once that occurs they can implement dynamic phase rotation and red truncation/green extension.

 

[urbanclient]

So far it’s just moving the left turn phase to after the east-west straight phase (currently it seems to be programmed statically based on time of day). They can’t dynamic changes until they get their order of LIDAR detectors in and reprogram the controllers to use them. Once that occurs they can implement dynamic phase rotation and red truncation/green extension.

And is this is a hypothetical or are LIDAR detectors actually coming in? Also if true, this would put to bed the pervasive "they have all the signal priority equipment they just need to turn it on" BS.

 

[ack]

They can’t dynamic changes until they get their order of LIDAR detectors in and reprogram the controllers to use them. Once that occurs they can implement dynamic phase rotation and red truncation/green extension.

But don't the signals already adjust dynamically? At Wynford, sometimes (I think it happens when a train is detected after the transit yellow starts, but before pedestrians get a walk) both transit and cars get an additional green right after the all-red.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Aren't the traffic signals under control of some sort of "central control". Which controls the timing of green light according to traffic flow? Allegedly. Don't the light rail vehicles have GPS that could be used by the central control to get transit priority without using local triggers?

 

[Admiral Beez]

This Marits a post.

 

[urbanclient]

my fear of TTC bedbugs factors into this. I hate the fabric used on Line 1

The TTC seems to be listening. Hopefully Metrolinx listens too. It's not the germs I'm worried about, since germs survive longer on solid surfaces than upholstery. It's bedbugs and human waste:

 

[Steve X]

Aren't the traffic signals under control of some sort of "central control". Which controls the timing of green light according to traffic flow? Allegedly. Don't the light rail vehicles have GPS that could be used by the central control to get transit priority without using local triggers?

GPS can be wonky and you know that from vehicle tracking.

However how can train detection need LiDAR and advanced tech when the functional signaling system already knows where the trains are. If this ML/Crosslinx contract doesn't allow the city to use that signaling system for traffic signal control, this is absolutely absurd. Something tells me that the city can't get the data from what ML has setup and must resort to their own system for train detection.

Houston got this right in 2004. I don't know what is wrong with everything here.

 

[hawc]

Rode it today. Was very pleasantly suprised. It was quite nice. I got on at Bermondsey Road and went west to Eglinton.

It was fast, smooth, accelerated good and hard. No long waits at lights.

Inside it felt like a nicer streetcar. Clean and new. No people experiencing drug use trying to stab anyone or set anyone on fire. There were no pit bulls barking at people, no one in a crack hangover in the back curled up across 5 seats. It's amazing how much nicer things are when you don't have one or two people ruining it for everyone.

Only complaint was coming up to the mid level at Eglinton Station I had no clue where to go for subways. There were signs for buses and exit to the street but NO SIGNS that clearly said Line 1 subway. So I just took the first escalator up and low and behold I was right there at the Line 1 platform, but really confused me.

Anyway, I give it a big thumbs up.

 

[zang]

However how can train detection need LiDAR and advanced tech when the functional signaling system already knows where the trains are. If this ML/Crosslinx contract doesn't allow the city to use that signaling system for traffic signal control, this is absolutely absurd. Something tells me that the city can't get the data from what ML has setup and must resort to their own system for train detection.

Sounds like Metrolinx; transparent as whole milk.

 

[ThenWhat]

Here me out, what if more or all the seats were longitudinal:

Eglinton would get more capacity layout changes alone, no change to platform/vehicle size.

[…]

We all have our preferences. I would much rather have this:

Prague, Czech Republic - 5 September 2022: Passengers inside a red streetcar in the Old Town of Prague Stock Photo - Alamy

Download this stock image: Prague, Czech Republic - 5 September 2022: Passengers inside a red streetcar in the Old Town of Prague - 2KPRF70 from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors.

www.alamy.com

Nice and clean, no sharing of double seats with oversize strangers, and everyone seated can see of out of the window.

 

[T3G]

Funny that Prague should be brought up, because their Skoda 14 Ts actually had their longitudinal seating removed and replaced with forward and backward facing seats because of space constraints, i.e. people tripping over outstretched feet in the aisle. These have a width of 2460 mm as compared to the 3140 mm width of the subway trains we run.

In the video that @urbanclient shared, it looks a little wider, but not much.

 

[urbanclient]

I've been relatively supportive of many of your viewpoints. No need to attack others simply for having different viewpoints or valuing one form of cleanliness over another. For the record, the majority of all metro/subway mileage in the world is in China. And as far as I know, not a single metro there has fabric seats. It's always plastic or metal. If it's not 100%, then it's 99%. The cited reasons being ease of cleaning and durability, both of which reap long-term cost savings.

Being a germaphobe would mean being afraid of germs no? As I implied, I don't care about bacteria or viruses, I care about bedbugs and human excreta. Bedbugs are a nightmare to deal with if they infest your home. It's basic human dignity to not want to sit in human waste, even if doing so is unharmful. @mikey7767 you sound like you've never witnessed a homeless person smelling of urine and feces, laying across multiple subway seats. When that person gets up, would you happily take their spot? If so, I guess you really are a bigger Alpha than the rest of us.

Gemini on germaphobia:

To me, fabric seats are backwards, especially in Eglinton's case. Sad to say, but Helen Kerr would be out of a job if they went with off-the-shelf plastic for Eglinton, instead of paying extra for a custom stain "camouflaging" fabric. But hey, taxpayer money grows on trees right, Metrolinx?

 

[Amare]

Paging @ShonTron

Funny that Prague should be brought up, because their Skoda 14 Ts actually had their longitudinal seating removed and replaced with forward and backward facing seats because of space constraints, i.e. people tripping over outstretched feet in the aisle. These have a width of 2460 mm as compared to the 3140 mm width of the subway trains we run.

In the video that @urbanclient shared, it looks a little wider, but not much.

That's the problem with longitudinal seating that people often forget about, people's feet protrude into the aisles and that causes a whole bunch of issues when the vehicle is busy.

Not a severe issue when you have wide vehicles like on our subway system, but if you theoretically tried that with the Flexities or Citadis, you're in for a mess.

 

[urbanclient]

Paging @ShonTron

That's the problem with longitudinal seating that people often forget about, people's feet protrude into the aisles and that causes a whole bunch of issues when the vehicle is busy.

Not a severe issue when you have wide vehicles like on our subway system, but if you theoretically tried that with the Flexities or Citadis, you're in for a mess.

The Prague example has 2.46 m wide Skodas, compared to 2.65 m Flexity Freedoms and Shit-adis. That 19 cm goes a long way. I'm just eye balling it from the video I posted. I'm quite certain the aisle is wide enough for people to walk through, even with seats occupied.

OC Streetcar, Siemens S700 (2.65 m wide) specs:

https://assets.new.siemens.com/siemens/assets/api/uuid:df3a214f-77a3-4733-854e-242cddec1847/Orange-County-S700-Streetcar-Data-Sheet_original.pdf

if you theoretically tried that with the Flexities or Citadis, you're in for a mess.

We did try and are trying that already?

Here are the longitudinal flip-down seats on Line 6 Finch West (2.65 m wide Citadis):

https://www.torontotoday.ca/local/transportation-infrastructure/transit-enthusiasts-celebrate-new-ttc-line-6-influencer-style-11591883

Here is Line 5 Eglinton (credit @julian.halm Instagram):

Here is Shanghai Line 5, which runs 2.6 m wide rolling stock, which is 5 cm narrower than the aforementioned trams. The aisle seems wide enough to me. Bear in mind, this is a line that has suffered from overcrowding. They stuck with longitudinal seating because it maximizes capacity and crowd flow.

Regarding "[longitudinal] causes a whole bunch of issues when the vehicle is busy." Like you surmised, that would only cause an issue if the aisle is unreasonably narrow. Which should not happen with competent transit authorities... Perhaps 2.46 width trains are too narrow for longitudinal. However, 2.65 m should be wide enough. Even then, I believe you're overlooking that transverse is slower for boarding and alighting, especially when the vehicle is busy. On the new LRTs in Toronto, the aisle is narrower with 2+2 transverse seating, even when compared to fully occupied flip-down longitudinal.

There are countless studies showing that longitudinal is faster for boarding and alighting. In other words, higher efficiency when the vehicle is busy. Here is an example:

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[asher__jo]

I think once signal priority is fully rolled out the endless fixation on “streetcar” rolling stock will abate….or we’ll continue debating a project that’s complete. *shrugs*