Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[smallspy]

I wonder how the contractor explains how braking once (from track speed, to apply the speed restriction) and then a second time (to stop at the platform) is more demanding on brakes than just braking once from track speed to stop at the platform.

The only way there is a difference is if the operator coasts from the first application to the second, losing speed without using the brakes. We definitely don't want that coasting as it implies more seconds wasted.

- Paul

It has to do with how dynamic/regenerative brakes work.

Because of their gearing, the maximum effective speed of the regenerative brakes on the Flexities is about 55km/h. Above that speed, the disc brakes are providing most of the stopping force. Conversely, the regenerative brakes are effective down to about 2 or 3km/h, where the discs then bring the vehicles to a stop.

Unless emergency braking is commanded, any braking between 55km/h and almost a stop is done entirely by regenerative brakes. So even applying the brakes twice - once from cruise to a lower speed for entry into the station, and then to a complete stop - really isn't any more or less demanding on the brakes at all than stopping all in one shot.

That said - bringing the trains to stop from 80km/h does have a far larger impact on the brakes, and that's what Crosslinx is balking at.

Dan

 

[TOtramz]

Is the promised 80km/h in the tunnels at risk due to maintenance concerns?
I'm not quite understanding what is happening here.

 

[PL1]

A couple of interesting observations from Laird station this morning:

1. The Next Train signs aren't working. The WB one is stuck on Now and 7 min, and the EB on 3 min and 3 min. I waited about 6 min for a WB train, and 2 EB trains came in the meantime.

2. The EB trains sounded their horns while leaving the station, and the WB train also sounded it's horn a couple of hundred metres before arriving at the station. (Whatever is requiring them to sound their horns is easy of Laird).

Probably not related to a fire investigation at Laird yesterday around 4:45 pm (there was no service for probably 15 min).

Anyway, it's still mostly good for my trips

 

[smallspy]

Is the promised 80km/h in the tunnels at risk due to maintenance concerns?
I'm not quite understanding what is happening here.

Yes - to put it simply, Crosslinx is in charge of maintaining the rolling stock for the next 30-ish years, and they don't like having to do brake pad replacements so frequently.

A couple of interesting observations from Laird station this morning:

1. The Next Train signs aren't working. The WB one is stuck on Now and 7 min, and the EB on 3 min and 3 min. I waited about 6 min for a WB train, and 2 EB trains came in the meantime.

2. The EB trains sounded their horns while leaving the station, and the WB train also sounded it's horn a couple of hundred metres before arriving at the station. (Whatever is requiring them to sound their horns is easy of Laird).

Probably not related to a fire investigation at Laird yesterday around 4:45 pm (there was no service for probably 15 min).

Anyway, it's still mostly good for my trips

Unless there was another shutdown, the trains were not running between Don Valley and Yonge until at least 7.30 last night.

And whatever was the cause of that shutdown is the reason why the eastbound trains are crawling out of of Laird right now. We didn't accelerate to track speed until we were 2 or 3 trainlengths past the centre track.

Dan

 

[crs1026]

Yes - to put it simply, Crosslinx is in charge of maintaining the rolling stock for the next 30-ish years, and they don't like having to do brake pad replacements so frequently.

If the problem is this simple, is it not equally simple to solve?
Crosslinx quoted based on a belief that the fleet would require x brake jobs per year at a cost of $y per brake job
New information suggests that applying higher speeds, the fleet will require x+z brake jobs at a higher cost.
Change the contract to pay for the added brake jobs. Get the trams moving faster asap.
The ML approach would be to have a long legal argument about how Crosslinx accepted the risk of a changed number of brake jobs and they need to eat the added cost. Crosslinx in term would reduce service as a legal strategy. The lawyers would challenge Crosslinx’ per brake job cost as excessive. Years would pass.
And P3’s are so good for the ridership….
- Paul

 

[PL1]

Unless there was another shutdown, the trains were not running between Don Valley and Yonge until at least 7.30 last night.

And whatever was the cause of that shutdown is the reason why the eastbound trains are crawling out of of Laird right now. We didn't accelerate to track speed until we were 2 or 3 trainlengths past the centre track.

Dan

Ah. I saw the fire trucks leaving by the time I got to Laird on foot yesterday p.m. and assumed service had resumed.

Anyway, hopefully a short term issue

 

[pmacpherson68]

Well... that didnt take too long... we have our first LRT - Auto collision on Line 5.

 

[afransen]

Maybe we will need to put in crossing gates. Madness that we have a $10B transit line disrupted by one bozo not obeying traffic lights.

 

[urbanclient]

Well... that didnt take too long... we have our first LRT - Auto collision on Line 5.

To be fair, the line's been open for nearly a whole month. One collision per month is par for the course. See Waterloo ION collisions per year.

 

[pmacpherson68]

To be fair, the line's been open for nearly a whole month. One collision per month is par for the course. See Waterloo ION collisions per year.

I guess there are enough idiots out there, and probably some who want to total their cars to get new ones...

 

[crs1026]

Rode twice this week, today just after the accident cleared. My train was first to leave Kennedy when service reaumed and with a gap ahead of it we rocketed across to Laird. At Birchmount we were pacing a 34 bus, but before reaching Laird we had left it behind and caught up with the next ahead bus.
On My last trip, the bus we paced leaving Kennedy got well ahead of us, but Nextbus tells me that both days the bus really bogs down west of Laird.
It was apparent that in moderate to heavy traffic, the bus gets caught behind lineups of cars at red lights and can’t get all the way to the stop until the next light cycle. The tram may still get snagged by the red, but doesn’t pay that one full cycle penalty. So under busy traffic, even with current signalling the tram has the advantage.
My trip today with the operator clearly playing catchup said to me that this line will work just fine once operators are free to gun it in more places. It felt quite speedy overall.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

Ps The “while the train is in motion, please remain seated and hold the handrail” in two languagea is totally unnecessary and annoying.

- Paul

 

[81-717]

It shouldn't take too long, not more than a few seconds, not to mention there's always several seconds between one light turning red & the other turning green. Heck, whenever a 5XX tram crosses an intersection when the green ends, it creates a nice opportunity to jaywalk along with it by shielding the intersection from any other traffic. And 4 seconds of green plus a few seconds of yellow should've been more than enough time to clear the intersection.

Today I saw a 506 at Main/Danforth proceed northbound right as its light turned yellow, and still hadn't completely cleared the intersection when the east/west turned green. If departing the moment the light turns yellow isn't an issue, there's no reason not to depart when there are still a few seconds of green left, left alone giving L5 less green time than cars.

 

[nfitz]

Today I saw a 506 at Main/Danforth proceed northbound right as its light turned yellow, and still hadn't completely cleared the intersection when the east/west turned green. If departing the moment the light turns yellow isn't an issue, there's no reason not to depart when there are still a few seconds of green left, left alone giving L5 less green time than cars.

That's 100% normal. And I've seen movement start AFTER the light has gone yellow (which might be a bit too far). I also frequently see streetcars enter intersections (on green) at the speed limit or even slightly faster, when there is no stop to be made. The multiple repeated claims about TTC speed restrictions at signalized intersections (without special trackwork - which is most signalized intersections) appears to be false.

 

[Amare]

The multiple repeated claims about TTC speed restrictions at signalized intersections (without special trackwork - which is most signalized intersections) appears to be false.

It's not.

The difference between Line 5/6 is that the speed restrictions for signalized intersections is programmed into the software. For the streetcar network it is not, therefore ops who havent had all the TTC's idiotic SOPs drilled into their heads sometimes go above the speed restrictions.