Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[SaugeenJunction]

Another testing video

 

[Admiral Beez]

I wonder if ONT's renewed passenger rail will inspire other provinces to consider provincially-run, non-tourist focused, non-VIA Regional Rail Connections (Intercity). Lethbridge-Calgary-Edmonton-FortMack and a separate Jasper-Edmonton run would be interesting. And Quebec would be ideal for non-VIA Regional Rail Connections. Hopefully the Ontario Northland service is successful and inspires other provinces to give it a go.

 

[micheal_can]

I wonder if ONT's renewed passenger rail will inspire other provinces to consider provincially-run, non-tourist focused, non-VIA Regional Rail Connections (Intercity). Lethbridge-Calgary-Edmonton-FortMack and a separate Jasper-Edmonton run would be interesting. And Quebec would be ideal for non-VIA Regional Rail Connections. Hopefully the Ontario Northland service is successful and inspires other provinces to give it a go.

Personally, I think it would be great if AB did something. However, the only things they have put forward are HSR.

 

[lenaitch]

I wonder if ONT's renewed passenger rail will inspire other provinces to consider provincially-run, non-tourist focused, non-VIA Regional Rail Connections (Intercity). Lethbridge-Calgary-Edmonton-FortMack and a separate Jasper-Edmonton run would be interesting. And Quebec would be ideal for non-VIA Regional Rail Connections. Hopefully the Ontario Northland service is successful and inspires other provinces to give it a go.

Could be but I'm not sure I would get my hopes up. The Canadian conditions seems to want to default responsibility upwards: municipal>provincial>federal. Tshiuetin Rail operates a passenger service on the QNS&L (I think they took it over from the railway). It would be nice if we have something like the US where states can fund Amtrak service in their areas. They get pax rail without having to get into all of minutiae of owning and operating a train service let alone a passenger service.

It was a political decision to kill Northlander and a political decision to bring it back. It was facilitate by having an operator they already own and who still had passenger operations. I'm actually surprised the extent to what they have gone for this renewal. I would have expected refurbished equipment and no infrastructure upgrades.

 

[ShonTron]

The reason is that Canadian doesn’t fit on TMC wye and they don’t want to use Bayview Jct to turn it, or run shorter consists more times a week. Hardly a problem for Northlander.

I’d assume the Northlander will run bidirectional like VIA’s Venture trainsets so the wye is moot. (It did use the TMC wye in the pre-2012 era.)

The only train now that I can think of that requires the wye is the Amtrak equipment used on the Maple Leaf.

 

[reaperexpress]

It was a political decision to kill Northlander and a political decision to bring it back. It was facilitate by having an operator they already own and who still had passenger operations. I'm actually surprised the extent to what they have gone for this renewal. I would have expected refurbished equipment and no infrastructure upgrades.

It also helps that the majority of the route (57%) is on tracks that the Province of Ontario (GO or ONR) already owns and maintains regardless:
ONR: 362 km (53%)
CN: 319 km (44%)
GO: 26 km (4%)

 

[dowlingm]

I’d assume the Northlander will run bidirectional like VIA’s Venture trainsets so the wye is moot. (It did use the TMC wye in the pre-2012 era.)

The only train now that I can think of that requires the wye is the Amtrak equipment used on the Maple Leaf.

I would think that Corridor Ventures are being wyed during this loco leading period, no?

But in any event, I did mean either way that there would be no necessity for ONR to use the Metrolinx Newmarket Sub unless the Bala south of CN York was embargoed - either it can using the trailing cab or it can wye at TMC, and Canadian can do neither

 

[Bordercollie]

I would think that Corridor Ventures are being wyed during this loco leading period, no?

But in any event, I did mean either way that there would be no necessity for ONR to use the Metrolinx Newmarket Sub unless the Bala south of CN York was embargoed - either it can using the trailing cab or it can wye at TMC, and Canadian can do neither

By the time it's in service it won't be need to be wey'd.

 

[micheal_can]

Ontario Releases Accelerated Plan to Complete Construction on Roads to the Ring of Fire Five Years Ahead of Schedule​

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca

Sounds like there will first be a resource road. No word on if there will be a rail link.

 

[lenaitch]

Ontario Releases Accelerated Plan to Complete Construction on Roads to the Ring of Fire Five Years Ahead of Schedule​

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca

Sounds like there will first be a resource road. No word on if there will be a rail link.

I haven't seen any serious talk about a rail link since the original claim holders (Cliffs or Noront, I can't remember), certainly nothing from the current owners Wayloo and Juno. The Ontario and Alberta governments signed some kind of non-binding agreement but I'm not sure what that is worth other than a photo-op.

The original concern was upfront cost vs a road, and I suspect the local folks want a road.

 

[micheal_can]

I haven't seen any serious talk about a rail link since the original claim holders (Cliffs or Noront, I can't remember), certainly nothing from the current owners Wayloo and Juno. The Ontario and Alberta governments signed some kind of non-binding agreement but I'm not sure what that is worth other than a photo-op.

The original concern was upfront cost vs a road, and I suspect the local folks want a road.

I suspect this is about building the road for the various communities along the way than it is about a haul road. If the Ring of Fire is really as rich as is said, a haul road will not be good enough when the mine is up and at full production. Locally around Sudbury, I have heard that trucks are not profitable over 100km from a mine. And since the processing will be done either in Timmins, SSM or Sudbury, there is no way they are hauling that far. So, I think this is more an access road than a haul road, which is still a good start. We shall see if a rail link is put in in the future.

 

[just east of the creek]

I wonder if ONT's renewed passenger rail will inspire other provinces to consider provincially-run, non-tourist focused, non-VIA Regional Rail Connections (Intercity). Lethbridge-Calgary-Edmonton-FortMack and a separate Jasper-Edmonton run would be interesting. And Quebec would be ideal for non-VIA Regional Rail Connections. Hopefully the Ontario Northland service is successful and inspires other provinces to give it a go.

Quebec (as in a stand alone agency - ARTM / EXO) seems to struggle with running rail services in and around Montreal where they would be hugely beneficial but your point is taken. Delivery of a rapid transit model is key. (Not like lines 5 and 6 in Toronto)

 

[Admiral Beez]

Quebec (as in a stand alone agency - ARTM / EXO) seems to struggle with running rail services in and around Montreal where they would be hugely beneficial but your point is taken. Delivery of a rapid transit model is key. (Not like lines 5 and 6 in Toronto)

Quebec had a widespread passenger rail network into the 1980s, as shown here https://www.arcgis.com/apps/instant/media/index.html?appid=8b62c577235840eea329c5af8cc6950b. The Quebec City to Winnipeg train would have been something else, going straight across the wilderness.

I'm surprised that when the Mulroney government announced its cuts to VIA, and as part of the separatist movement the province didn't take control of the intercity and regional passenger rail.

 

[just east of the creek]

Quebec had a widespread passenger rail network into the 1980s, as shown here https://www.arcgis.com/apps/instant/media/index.html?appid=8b62c577235840eea329c5af8cc6950b. The Quebec City to Winnipeg train would have been something else, going straight across the wilderness.

I'm surprised that when the Mulroney government announced its cuts to VIA, and as part of the separatist movement the province didn't take control of the intercity and regional passenger rail.

You are correct and that is a good question.

You can be assured that in my fantasy world I will be taking over the Canadian and the Ocean as a franchised tourist service of VIA and services will originate from Halifax, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver, allowing you to go coast to coast in a more timely fashion if you should choose. I may have to take over a railway and spend, spend, spend for new tracks, augmented tracks, twinned tracks, signalling and new equipment (to supplement and compliment what exists). But the concept is great. Canada spends the greater portion of 12 billion per year on foreign aid and development, and we could easily redirect that to Trans Continental Passenger Rail Development, which would be an economic boon for so many northern, western and more isolated communities.

 

[Admiral Beez]

You can be assured that in my fantasy world I will be taking over the Canadian and the Ocean as a franchised tourist service of VIA and services will originate from Halifax, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver,

One fantasy rail on my mind is Newfoundland and its narrow gauge network. There are multitudes of roadless towns along Newfoundland’s south coast between Port Aux Basques and Terrenceville that could have been connected by rail to the capital, helping these towns to survive. But as they say on the Riverbank, that's another story (for another thread).