Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[innsertnamehere]

According to the current timetable, there are 4 buses per day in each direction between North Bay and Yorkdale station, of which 2 continue to Union.

The two express buses (03:15 and 12:30) take exactly the same time as the train to Union (5h flat) and the local buses are about 45 minutes slower than that.

However, most passengers actually join the bus at Yorkdale or Hwy 407 terminal, and it's only 4h25 from North Bay to Yorkdale.
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And another 30 minute ride downtown. It's not exactly fair to compare a bus schedule to a location 15km north of downtown which is the part that the train outperforms the bus speed-wise the most.

The train is definitely a comparable travel time if you are going into the city, if it can maintain a relatively consistent 5hr travel period.

Now of course, this is ignoring that it's only about a 3.5 hour drive from North Bay to Toronto.. but that's a whole other matter.

 

[KhalilHeron]

According to the current timetable, there are 4 buses per day in each direction between North Bay and Yorkdale station, of which 2 continue to Union.

The two express buses (03:15 and 12:30) take exactly the same time as the train to Union (5h flat) and the local buses are about 45 minutes slower than that.

However, most passengers actually join the bus at Yorkdale or Hwy 407 terminal, and it's only 4h25 from North Bay to Yorkdale.
View attachment 703787

Its also 4h 25 from langstaff to Northbay and i imagine a lot of people connecting from GO busses will shift their trips there. Most connecting from the subway at 407 or yorkdale will have longer trips since they need to head to union or hop on a bus. Thankfully the yonge north subway will eventually solve that issue

 

[micheal_can]

One thing to think about is this time of year. Snow storms and freezing rain makes highway travel treacherous.Not so for a train. That is what many are looking forward to.

 

[KhalilHeron]

One thing to think about is this time of year. Snow storms and freezing rain makes highway travel treacherous.Not so for a train. That is what many are looking forward to.

yea I have a bunch of family in Muskoka that have issues with long drives and will not visit in the winter at all. Unfortunately, many refuse to take a bus but are very excited for the train

 

[reaperexpress]

No change in schedule from the one proposed in their Business Case, except no mention of a connection to Cochrane.

The existing bus schedules already provide a connection to Cochrane with the proposed train times, but they would need to reroute the Timmins-Cochrane bus to travel via Hwy 11 rather than Hwy 655 so it passes by the Porcupine station.

Based on the timing of the PBX, it would be better if the northbound Northlander were an hour or two later, arriving in Timmins around 07:00. This would also be better for everyone using the train to stations north of North Bay since the train would arrive at a more reasonable time and people could get more sleep on the train.

 

[reaperexpress]

And another 30 minute ride downtown. It's not exactly fair to compare a bus schedule to a location 15km north of downtown which is the part that the train outperforms the bus speed-wise the most.

No, the numbers in the table already include a 10-minute transfer at Yorkdale and a 25-minute subway ride to Union.

Whether you like it or not, 92% of the GTA's population (7.0 million out of 7.6 million) is located outside of downtown Toronto, so for the average GTA resident, Yorkdale or Hwy 407 station will be more convenient place to transfer en route to Northern Ontario than Union Station, which is all the way at the south of the GTA. Langstaff provides a similar function on the train.

 

[Bordercollie]

And another 30 minute ride downtown. It's not exactly fair to compare a bus schedule to a location 15km north of downtown which is the part that the train outperforms the bus speed-wise the most.

The train is definitely a comparable travel time if you are going into the city, if it can maintain a relatively consistent 5hr travel period.

Now of course, this is ignoring that it's only about a 3.5 hour drive from North Bay to Toronto.. but that's a whole other matter.

On a good day with no snow or traffic. It can be two hours just Barrie with snow squalls or if there is an accodent.

 

[nfitz]

Where are you seeing that? The train will apparently be 5 hours to North Bay according to the schedule on the last page - the two buses scheduled right now take 5:23 and 5:37.

Interesting, I hadn't realized the bus was so much slower than driving. Lots of stops I guess. I wonder if they'll end the bus service - didn't it only start after the cancelled the train?

On the other hand - compare the schedule for some provincial rail projects, from before it opens, to after it opens!

The lack of sleepers is unfortunate. Though if they were to add some, I'd assume they'd just add on to VIAs upcoming order, and add them to the existing trainsets. Though I doubt there'll be the political motivation to do that.

 

[Bordercollie]

Interesting, I hadn't realized the bus was so much slower than driving. Lots of stops I guess. I wonder if they'll end the bus service - didn't it only start after the cancelled the train?

On the other hand - compare the schedule for some provincial rail projects, from before it opens, to after it opens!

The lack of sleepers is unfortunate. Though if they were to add some, I'd assume they'd just add on to VIAs upcoming order, and add them to the existing trainsets. Though I doubt there'll be the political motivation to do that.

That's assuming that Siemens gets to build the LD fleet. Considering that they are looking at mandating Canadian content it may go to another manufacturer.

 

[micheal_can]

Interesting, I hadn't realized the bus was so much slower than driving. Lots of stops I guess. I wonder if they'll end the bus service - didn't it only start after the cancelled the train?

On the other hand - compare the schedule for some provincial rail projects, from before it opens, to after it opens!

The lack of sleepers is unfortunate. Though if they were to add some, I'd assume they'd just add on to VIAs upcoming order, and add them to the existing trainsets. Though I doubt there'll be the political motivation to do that.

Some form of bus has operated long before the end of the Northlander. Some of it was Greyhound, while others were ONR Bus. It will be interesting if they leave it as is and see how the ridership changes.

 

[lead82]

So how many train sets with ONR buy? If they only need one train to operate, I would imagine we bought like 2-3 sets from Siemens for spares and backups?

 

[micheal_can]

So how many train sets with ONR buy? If they only need one train to operate, I would imagine we bought like 2-3 sets from Siemens for spares and backups?

I have heard 3.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

So how many train sets with ONR buy? If they only need one train to operate, I would imagine we bought like 2-3 sets from Siemens for spares and backups?

3 Siemens Venture sets were ordered. 2 will operate concurrently with a 3rd for a spare.

 

[lenaitch]

The existing bus schedules already provide a connection to Cochrane with the proposed train times, but they would need to reroute the Timmins-Cochrane bus to travel via Hwy 11 rather than Hwy 655 so it passes by the Porcupine station.

Both the ONTC and government have been coy about a Timmins-Cochrane connection,, but the ONR's Northlander project page reads:

The Northlander train service will provide a safe and reliable transportation option between Toronto and Timmins, with a rail connection to Cochrane.

The business case discusses an option of a 'shuttle' between Timmins and Cochrane, but they've not tendered for any equipment so would would have to do it with existing PBX equipment and crews, which seems unwieldy. I don't get the sense (although its not absolutely clear) that the new Timmins station will have provisions for turn-around maintenance, hotel power, etc. and it would mean a new operating base for both running crews and light maintenance staff. That's why I'm hanging my hat on the trainset connecting Timmins and Cochrane; turn a maintenance move into a revenue move.

Besides, if service is still slated to start mid-2026, I don't see the Timmins station finished by then.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

Both the ONTC and government have been coy about a Timmins-Cochrane connection,, but the ONR's Northlander project page reads:



The business case discusses an option of a 'shuttle' between Timmins and Cochrane, but they've not tendered for any equipment so would would have to do it with existing PBX equipment and crews, which seems unwieldy. I don't get the sense (although its not absolutely clear) that the new Timmins station will have provisions for turn-around maintenance, hotel power, etc. and it would mean a new operating base for both running crews and light maintenance staff. That's why I'm hanging my hat on the trainset connecting Timmins and Cochrane; turn a maintenance move into a revenue move.

Besides, if service is still slated to start mid-2026, I don't see the Timmins station finished by then.

The trainsets are going to layover in Cochrane. Once they get to Timmins-Porcupine the crew will change ends and go back through Porquis Junction north to Cochrane.