Toronto Sugar Wharf Condominiums (Phase 2) | 283.6m | 85s | Menkes | a—A

[Diablo1983]

I feel like the use of +15 bridges for the PATH specifically wouldn't make an impact on having animated streets in the neighbourhood. It's not like areas which currently have the PATH suffer from dead surface streets. The use case of the PATH and the city street is quite different IMO.

Also, yes, I don't think they'll connect anything south of the tracks to the PATH from the upcoming connection that goes from CIBC II to Backstage condos. There really doesn't seem to be the space, unless they dig deep enough to go under the rail line, Lakeshore, and Gardiner. They could go up, but it would be a massive jump in elevation as well. I do have to wonder what the point of the connection from CIBC II to Backstage is considering there isn't really anywhere for the PATH to go from there. Future proofing I guess.

Based on what everyone's said, it seems the PATH will go from CIBC I > One Yonge > Sugar Wharf

I don't see how it goes from CIBC 1 to One Yonge period. I think the plan was to have a raised bridge from Backstage to One Yonge but WFDR seems to be blocking that. So unless they go under (which they won't), I don't see the PATH heading south of the Gardiner on Yonge. Would be interesting to see if they could somehow go underground from Waterpark Place to One Yonge since the conference centre is going to be redeveloped and everything is going to be dug up for the WELRT at some point in the future.....but based on what I see in the minutes, I can't imagine the PATH is coming to Sugar Wharf or One Yonge area anytime soon.

 

[mburrrrr]

I don't see how it goes from CIBC 1 to One Yonge period. I think the plan was to have a raised bridge from Backstage to One Yonge but WFDR seems to be blocking that. So unless they go under (which they won't), I don't see the PATH heading south of the Gardiner on Yonge. Would be interesting to see if they could somehow go underground from Waterpark Place to One Yonge since the conference centre is going to be redeveloped and everything is going to be dug up for the WELRT at some point in the future.....but based on what I see in the minutes, I can't imagine the PATH is coming to Sugar Wharf or One Yonge area anytime soon.

Blue high level bridge under Gardiner similar to Scotiabank arena to RBC Waterpark
Place tower

Someone thought this yellow triangle of land at the WB Yonge off ramp could be developed. @Automation Gallery I think.
Maybe that’s if/when the PATH will get funded to 1 Yonge.
I can’t imagine this anytime soon either.

Red. Remove Bay St on ramp. Change Jarvis off ramp to end at Yonge.

CIBC phase 1

To phase 3 at 7 Yonge. Current plan does not look promising for a PATH in the future.

To sugar wharf phase 2
Recent PATH vision

Old basement version of PATH to phase 2 to 1

Existing basement level 20m? PATH section from phase 1 to LCBO office bldg

@WB62 had a vision/drawing of a new bridge over (and accessing) the tracks with access to from the south and north side above Yonge st. In the Union Station thread.

 

[mburrrrr]

I found the post of a possible bridge over the tracks by @WB62

According to the recent USEP documents that were posted here earlier this week, a bridge above Yonge Street connecting to Union Station is under consideration, this bridge would connect to various potential platform extensions, providing Union Station a direct connection to Yonge Street.View attachment 597146

Here’s the official blueprint of the bridge included in the USEP documents:View attachment 597147

It can also be partially seen in the 3d model of Union Station Metrolinx showed in one of their social media posts a few months ago:View attachment 597148


Alongside this bridge over Yonge Street, a west bridge coming out of the Skywalk and UP Express station is also under consideration, and would also connect to future platforms extended out of the west side of Union, here’s the blueprint for the west bridge and a screenshot of it in that same Metrolinx 3d model video:View attachment 597149
View attachment 597150
The photos of the 3d model are very low quality and in awkward angles, but that’s just how Metrolinx posted the video.

 

[DSCToronto]

View attachment 700993
Blue high level bridge under Gardiner similar to Scotiabank arena to RBC Waterpark
Place tower

Someone thought this yellow triangle of land at the WB Yonge off ramp could be developed. @Automation Gallery I think.
Maybe that’s if/when the PATH will get funded to 1 Yonge.
I can’t imagine this anytime soon either.

Red. Remove Bay St on ramp. Change Jarvis off ramp to end at Yonge.

CIBC phase 1
View attachment 700979

To phase 3 at 7 Yonge. Current plan does not look promising for a PATH in the future.
View attachment 700983

To sugar wharf phase 2
Recent PATH vision
View attachment 700980

Old basement version of PATH to phase 2 to 1
View attachment 700981

Existing basement level 20m? PATH section from phase 1 to LCBO office bldg
View attachment 700982
View attachment 700988
@WB62 had a vision/drawing of a new bridge over (and accessing) the tracks with access to from the south and north side above Yonge st. In the Union Station thread.

Don't forget that the current 'dog' leg' at Yonge/Harbour/Lake Shore will go and Harbour will run through further east - eventually to Lower Jarvis. The area to north of Phase 1 which now has Lake Shore plus the Jarvis Ramp will be another tower and I think the PATH will run through that. Not that any of this is happening for AGES.

 

[Diablo1983]

View attachment 700993
Blue high level bridge under Gardiner similar to Scotiabank arena to RBC Waterpark
Place tower

Someone thought this yellow triangle of land at the WB Yonge off ramp could be developed. @Automation Gallery I think.
Maybe that’s if/when the PATH will get funded to 1 Yonge.
I can’t imagine this anytime soon either.

Red. Remove Bay St on ramp. Change Jarvis off ramp to end at Yonge.

CIBC phase 1
View attachment 700979

To phase 3 at 7 Yonge. Current plan does not look promising for a PATH in the future.
View attachment 700983

To sugar wharf phase 2
Recent PATH vision
View attachment 700980

Old basement version of PATH to phase 2 to 1
View attachment 700981

Existing basement level 20m? PATH section from phase 1 to LCBO office bldg
View attachment 700982
View attachment 700988
@WB62 had a vision/drawing of a new bridge over (and accessing) the tracks with access to from the south and north side above Yonge st. In the Union Station thread.

Waterfront Design Review is not allowing any +15 style bridges. See a few posts above - I even linked to minutes where they killed it for Sugar Wharf Phase 2, and if you find the minutes for One Yonge Phase 3, you'll find they said the same thing to them. This is not happening if they continue to block them.

 

[DSCToronto]

Waterfront Design Review is not allowing any +15 style bridges. See a few posts above - I even linked to minutes where they killed it for Sugar Wharf Phase 2, and if you find the minutes for One Yonge Phase 3, you'll find they said the same thing to them. This is not happening if they continue to block them.

Waterfront Design Review Panel (or the City's own DRP), though usually very sensible, do not have the power to prevent anything. They can 'not recommend' something but at the end of the day the City can do what they want.

 

[ComptoirGeneral]

Waterfront Design Review is not allowing any +15 style bridges. See a few posts above - I even linked to minutes where they killed it for Sugar Wharf Phase 2, and if you find the minutes for One Yonge Phase 3, you'll find they said the same thing to them. This is not happening if they continue to block them.

I wonder why they have such disdain for +15 style bridges. I genuinely don't see how they negatively impact the streetscape at all.

 

[Diablo1983]

I wonder why they have such disdain for +15 style bridges. I genuinely don't see how they negatively impact the streetscape at all.

especially across the Lakeshore stroad...no amount of street animation can make that pedestrian friendly.

 

[Civdis]

I feel like the use of +15 bridges for the PATH specifically wouldn't make an impact on having animated streets in the neighbourhood. It's not like areas which currently have the PATH suffer from dead surface streets. The use case of the PATH and the city street is quite different IMO.

Also, yes, I don't think they'll connect anything south of the tracks to the PATH from the upcoming connection that goes from CIBC II to Backstage condos. There really doesn't seem to be the space, unless they dig deep enough to go under the rail line, Lakeshore, and Gardiner. They could go up, but it would be a massive jump in elevation as well. I do have to wonder what the point of the connection from CIBC II to Backstage is considering there isn't really anywhere for the PATH to go from there. Future proofing I guess.

Based on what everyone's said, it seems the PATH will go from CIBC I > One Yonge > Sugar Wharf

I think the connection to Backstage is part of a plan to connect the PATH to the massive Green P parking lot next door on the Esplanade. That is a very useful place to park for Scotiabank Arena and other attractions in the area. The very long term is to have PATH connections to the St Lawrence Market we were told (not sure I will ever see that happen).

 

[ComptoirGeneral]

especially across the Lakeshore stroad...no amount of street animation can make that pedestrian friendly.

Exactly, you would think the Waterfront BIA would be more concerned with the improvement of the actual waterfront, not the nightmare that is the Gardiner/Lakeshore. A +15 bridge connecting CIBC I with Pinnacle would barely be within the boundaries of their zone. If anything, the bridge would probably do a better job of bringing more people to the waterfront than having to traverse the Lakeshore/Gardiner nightmare.

In my opinion, there is almost no correlation between the PATH existing and having an animated streetscape. The type of people who come down to the waterfront for enjoyment is completely different than the type of person who is likely to use the PATH. They're complementary systems, but walking along the waterfront is the entire point of being there. People aren't going to isolate themselves within the PATH just because it's suddenly available.

I've walked, run, and cycled the length of the Waterfront more times than I can count, but I have literally never been inside the PATH bridge that connects Scotiabank with WaterPark Place -- mostly because it would take longer than just walking outside, and finding the entrance to a specific PATH route is often more work than it's worth. The PATH is a great route if you're already inside, but I don't think it tends to pull people off the street if there's already a direct route available between point A to B.

 

[ComptoirGeneral]

I think the connection to Backstage is part of a plan to connect the PATH to the massive Green P parking lot next door on the Esplanade. That is a very useful place to park for Scotiabank Arena and other attractions in the area. The very long term is to have PATH connections to the St Lawrence Market we were told (not sure I will ever see that happen).

That would make sense, especially if they plan to eventually connect Church Street to Cooper under the Gardiner one day.

I wonder if Market Wharf has provisions for a PATH connection, as that seems to be the only possible route from the parking lot to St. Lawrence Market. I'm sure the co-op and older midrise condos on the block between Market Street and Esplanade don't have provisions for a PATH connection.

 

[Civdis]

That would make sense, especially if they plan to eventually connect Church Street to Cooper under the Gardiner one day.

I wonder if Market Wharf has provisions for a PATH connection, as that seems to be the only possible route from the parking lot to St. Lawrence Market. I'm sure the co-op and older midrise condos on the block between Market Street and Esplanade don't have provisions for a PATH connection.

I'm not sure, but I know there is a corridor along the P2 level of Backstage that will get the PATH to the Green P. Weird thing is that there is no timeline to get that corridor open and connected to Green P. I would have thought this a fairly simple and inexpensive connection from Backstage. Sorry to continue the OT PATH discussion.