Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

It'll be interesting to see how sustainable the line is when it only caters to the handful of business travellers and tourists who will journey to/from downtown to the airport. The line effectively ignores the multitude of other potential passengers by failing to offer enough connections. The planners compare this to Heathrow Express but forget that the original and still popular line to service Heathrow was Heathrow Connect.
 
Oslo
800px-Flytoget_Oslo_S.jpg



London
Heathrow_Express_332_008.jpg


Shanghai
800px-A_maglev_train_coming_out%2C_Pudong_International_Airport%2C_Shanghai.jpg


Vancouver
800px-Canada_Line_Train.jpg


Toronto
RDC-1-New.jpg


From VIA Rail's site

"The VIA Rail RDCs (used primarily on the Malahat and the Lake Superior) are the only remaining RDCs in the world still providing regular service."
 
It'll be interesting to see how sustainable the line is when it only caters to the handful of business travellers and tourists who will journey to/from downtown to the airport. The line effectively ignores the multitude of other potential passengers by failing to offer enough connections. The planners compare this to Heathrow Express but forget that the original and still popular line to service Heathrow was Heathrow Connect.

I suspect we will never know. I would presume that Metrolinx will put forward an alternative plan that will satisfy more people....otherwise, what was the point of them taking over the process?

I just happen to be of the opinion that "wrong business model" is not something that should be part of an EA.
 
I suspect we will never know. I would presume that Metrolinx will put forward an alternative plan that will satisfy more people....otherwise, what was the point of them taking over the process?

I just happen to be of the opinion that "wrong business model" is not something that should be part of an EA.

There's a fine line between "wrong business model" and "not enough benefit to society". I guess it's just how you look at it...

I can't even look at those photos above. They sicken and infuriate me. How depressing.

This make you feel better?

united-states-jet-train-test.jpg
 
From VIA Rail's site

"The VIA Rail RDCs (used primarily on the Malahat and the Lake Superior) are the only remaining RDCs in the world still providing regular service."

I know. I rode both routes.

RDCs once held an interesting niche in Canada's passenger rail system, and were actually very versatile, ingenious contraptions. Both CP and CN had large fleets of them and they were used for shorter, rural routes, like CP's Toronto-Owen Sound (to 1970), Toronto-Peterborough, Montreal-Sherbrooke, Halifax-Wolfville-Yarmouth (to 1990), Toronto-London-Windsor as well as semi-remote services. CN ran them in impressive trains like the Toronto-Kitchener-London runs as well as its own small town and remote services.

The Mulroney slashes made the RDCs (and the ancient CN heavystock coaches) redundant except those two isolated routes. VIA kept the best of what it had and junked the rest.

There were different configurations for RDCs - passenger only, baggage only, combines and cab-less dummy cars that would be powered in MU-configurations.

The former CP-served E&N Malahat and Lake Superior (which paralleled the old Canadian route , freeing it from making random stops) are the only remnants left.

The old Budd RDCs may have had an interesting niche, but they are not suited to the type of run Blue 22 has in mind. If refurbished RDCs have a place, it is again for remote services and revivals of rural train service for short to medium terms. I could see RDCs come back to start off a return of VIA Peterborough or Sherbrooke service or intercity trains where less than three cars are needed while VIA awaits new equipment, or do a shuttle service to Niagara. They are not suited that well for transit, and are not the kind of vehicles that should be used in the Weston corridor. Even refurbished, they have a limited useful life.

Though I thought Trinity Railway Express was running RDCs. Syracuse had them for a bit as well.
 
Last edited:
I posted the following comment on Steve Munro's website, and I think it's also appropriate here:

I agree with everything you wrote.

If this was a GO initiative everyone would be praising it since it'd be a well-used service that benefitted everyone. As is though, Blue 22 sucks.
 
Let them start it. Let it suffer from a lack of ridership. Let it go under. Then let the trackage lie underused for half a decade till GO decides that they should provide the service instead and that it is perfect for their mandate.
 
I am very mixed on Blue 22. I will try to summarize how I feel about specific issues.

The loss of level crossings: I tend to fall into the 'suck it up camp.' If the community is seriously upset about this, there isn't much I can say that would lessen that. But, looking at this issue in isolation, it is a NIMBY issue. These crossings will have to be closed no matter what if the city is even remotely serious about bringing rail transit anywhere in the NW. Doesn't Metrolinx plan to run 'REX' services along here to Brampton that will inevitably require the exact same thing? In the long term, local walk in retail traffic will just migrate to different locations.

The high (22$) fare: No doubt it is high, but that is pretty much inevitable. The Heathrow Express costs 16 quid. The Narita Express costs ~20$ (1450 yen), more for it's competitor the Skyliner. An express train to the airport is expensive to operate. I can appreciate that some people don't like this, but presenting it as fat cat capitalists screwing the consumer is wrong. If GO operated the same service, provided there were no subsidies, it would have the same cost. An express rail isn't meant to serve 'priority neighborhoods' nor as a way to work for airport employees most of whom live nowhere near any CBD-YYZ alignment, anyways.

That they are DMUs: Yea, this is hardly the sexiest option. A bit of my jingoistic side tells me that Toronto deserves better (insert picture of sexy Euro train here). But beyond the argument of 'it's diesel, eww' there isn't really much to say about it. I hope in time that corridor is electrified, but until then we are stuck with diesel no matter what. In time the rolling stock will presumably be upgraded to an EMU. Also, I have no sympathy for Weston residents complaining about this. That rail corridor has had diesel trains running down it longer than anybody who currently lives in the area. If you buy next to an nonelectric rail corridor, I really can't say I am sorry when diesel trains come through. And, hypothetically, I bet local residents would also complain about the support towers needed to string electrical wires along the corridor.

Private Public Partnership: I don't really know what the financing structure behind Blu22 is. If the SNC-Lavalin group intends to basically operate the service without subsidy in return for some signaling and grading upgrades, I am all for it. As it is though, I don't really know how much money the public sector is intended to contribute to this, though. Normally these schemes include some kind of 'public sector competitor' to asses what the cost savings are, if any, involved with using the private sector. I have no idea what this study suggested. Simply not liking the project because the private sector is involved is juvenile, but I don't think the government has done a good enough job of proving this wil in fact save money.

The lack of 'local' service: Once again, I don't understand why people should expect something that's entire reason d'etre is to be a limited stop express rail service to make local stops. Maybe Weston does deserve some kind of GO service. That is a GO issue, though. If SNC-Lavalin feels it can make a business of a Blu22 service, they should have every right to try. The corridor is wide enough to accommodate future GO service should Blu22 go ahead, so it's not as if Blu22 precludes local transit. As far as an EA is concerned, the lack of local transit is not a legitimate concern. If the residents wanted to lobby GO for better transit, sure. They aren't though. As far as I am concerned, it isn't SNC-Lavalin's responsibility to provide the Weston area with any service if they don't want to. Maybe the government should change it's RFP to something like Crossrail or RER instead of the express rail it asked for.
 
Last edited:
Let them start it. Let it suffer from a lack of ridership. Let it go under. Then let the trackage lie underused for half a decade till GO decides that they should provide the service instead and that it is perfect for their mandate.

are you kidding? i wouldn't want them to waste the money on something that has no potential. they'd probably ask for bail outs when things don't work out and stay in business only to squash the hopes of something better to come along.


besides, it might not be that simple to retool it for another use. especially if they don't create it in a way that would allow it the possibility to be a public rapid transit line with stations along the way.
 
In Response to Keithz:
Or, we could just wait long enough for a High Speed Rail connection and then you would have your non stop Union to Malton/People Mover service those wealthy business pasangers have been asking for with the bonus of fancy new electric trains. Either way, we're looking at 15-25 years for either option.

In the interim however, This sounds like the type of service that a national rail service should be providing. The two stops (Union, Malton) are definitely far enough apart. If only VIA rail can get its act together and run a real rail network...
 
This article assumes the Weston residents are a NIMBY group.
The article may be poor, but thare are certainly shades of NIMBYisim in the Weston community. Two of their four big issues appear to be the smell of the trains and the noise - those are NIMBY issues. (and as the other two seem to be no local service - which GO has since turned around and promised - and the level crossing, which they have since been promised concessions).
 
Question: what options to we have in new DMUs? How much do new ones cost?

I know that Bombardier Talents cannot be used because of North American safety regulations, but is there a way around it?

I was looking around Wikipedia, and found that Siemens Desiro MUs, which I assume are similar to the Bombardier Talent, are used in San Diego:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desiro
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprinter_(San_Diego)
 
Last edited:
The North American safety regulations are a complete joke and make the capital costs of passenger rail service very high. Instead of mandating that trains be able to withstand crashes, the regulators should be changing the rules to require improvements in the signalling system to prevent crashes in the first place.

After all, Boeing and Airbus don't design aircraft to survive air crashes.
 
Instead of mandating that trains be able to withstand crashes, the regulators should be changing the rules to require improvements in the signalling system to prevent crashes in the first place.

Can't agree more.
 

Back
Top