chrisw
Active Member
Yes, I'm also interested in Metrolinx's 2051 Regional Transit Plan. I think there's been some consultation with municipalities.
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GO 2.0 Expansion Plan
- Thread starter crs1026
- Start date
Yes, I'm also interested in Metrolinx's 2051 Regional Transit Plan. I think there's been some consultation with municipalities.
duffo
Active Member
There are MX board minutes stating that this would be completed in Q4 2024 yet we're all here still waiting for some kind of public document. Perhaps complicated by the fact that MX shed hundreds of planning staff over the last few months. From what I've heard, this is largely an exercise in "aligning" with the MTO Greater Golden Horseshoe 2051 transit plan (also completed by HDR).. Ontario Line Loop coming soon?
And fyi, $250k is a tiny amount to complete this kind of work... talk about a "loss leader"!
crs1026
Superstar
Your gratuitous slagging of boomers is duly noted, and while I won't risk the moderators' wrath by responding to it, you can guess what my emphatic response might be.
The point you miss is that two successive governments of opposite political stripes did articulate very similar plans for a quite progressive regional rail network, and allow a great deal of detailed planning that was actually usable. Perhaps sincerity was lacking, but both governments had no difficulty mouthing those ideas.
The failure is in execution. And certainly in underestimating the amount of change and investment required.
(Were you around in the 60's or 70's? No, I didn't think so. Toronto's politics in that era included the abandonment of inner city expressways and the hard-fought but ultimately successful retention of the streetcar. And the creation and nourishment of a rail commuter network that formed the foundation for regional rail. Not to mention the demonstration of the value of the Windsor- Quebec City passenger rail corridor. We even decided not to tear down Union Station after all. )
Next time you talk to a boomer, thank them for all that.
Maybe those are good roots to be proud of. The departure from those roots came later, and is the result of politics that don't turn on generational lines.
Certainly Ford seems to have retreated to a very narrowminded, car-centric focus. That's because enough of a constituencyu exists to ensure his ability to win elections from that platform. You are underestimating the direction that the likes of Chow might lean if it were not for the intrusiveness of Ford meddling. And who holds the purse strings.
Oh, and David Miller (born 1958) is a boomer. Karen Stintz (b 1971) isn't. Adam Giambone (b 1977) isn't. Whose transit vision and accomplishments do you prefer?
- Paul
WB62
Senior Member
Something I find interesting is there’s actually evidence of a third line on the GO 2.0 map that was released during the election campaigns, the line was clearly removed last minute because someone just took a paint tool and coloured over it:
It would have travelled from at least as far west as Oakville, through Mississauga, up Canpa to Midtown Toronto, and Scarborough, then going down the CN line to Pickering, before terminating in Oshawa:
Even though it was cancelled prior to GO 2.0s announcement, I think this can count as one of the first times Canpa has been included in a plan.
It would have travelled from at least as far west as Oakville, through Mississauga, up Canpa to Midtown Toronto, and Scarborough, then going down the CN line to Pickering, before terminating in Oshawa:
Even though it was cancelled prior to GO 2.0s announcement, I think this can count as one of the first times Canpa has been included in a plan.
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CapitalSeven
Senior Member
Is Doug Ford a boomer or GenX? He was born in 1964. Douglas Coupland was born in 1961 was under the impression that his book was about his own generation. At any rate, DoFo stopped believing in subways at some point during the goblin mode hangover of the pandemic, and now believes, as do sadly a majority of Canadians, that folks want SUVs, SUVs, SUVs, and cheap gas to run them.
MidtownKW
New Member
1964 is nearly always the cut off. Sometimes you see someone cite 1960, but I think there's a lot of consensus around the 1946-1964 definition.
1959 was the peak year for births in Canada.
I think both these men are Late Boomers.
crs1026
Superstar
Very interesting. Apparently DoFo runs a leading edge, high tech planning process that uses IT to draw maps, where older generations used napkins ;-:
The interesting specific detail for me is the mention of a Lakeview station on LSW. Didn't a local MPP put their foot in their mouth by erroneously announcing it at a Ford photo op ? I wonder if they were privy to the pre-final map and nobody updated them when the idea was put on back burner.
The overall idea is interesting but would be very expensive, and would require a quantum leap towards a midtown corridor arrangement with CP and a public policy shift to the idea of an upper Yonge terminus to the exclusion/augmentation of Union Station. The price tag puts it out beyond completion of the four current big transit investments. - plus GO Expansion -, and it competes with both the Milton 2WAD and the 401 tunnel for the next tranche of big ticket funding.
I wonder how it would interleave with LSE/LSW.
In all I would put it on the list of things our grandchildren might seriously consider, but at least two decades away.
Which brings me back to, I would much rather see my government getting serious about finishing all of GO Expansion and doing less throwing baubles at the voters.
- Paul
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dowlingm
Senior Member
Even on this site of many crayons, I don’t think anyone has proposed running over Canpa in passenger service!
Bureaucromancer
Active Member
Not in regular service anyway… I do see the appeal of upgrading to GO service standards as something of a diversion route should Milton and Midtown be built out in a way that gives metrolinx operational control. That lakeshore midtown routing is… very crayon friendly. It genuinely LOOKS great aesthetically. It just doesn’t serve much purpose and moves transfers to the TTC from being counter peak direction to piling on where services are already most heavily loaded.
chrisw
Active Member
canarob
Senior Member
#10, the east-west line would be completely transformational for the region and this seems to be saying it's the next project in line as it's the only one to exceed the performance criteria. Forget tunnels and more highways, build this and connect so many of the regional centres and GO lines!
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Cambry Ardship
Active Member
Four minute frequencies, this would seem to indicate they're sketching out a REM-type service?
JSF-1
Active Member
Welcome back GO ALRT. (Just proves Bill Davis and James Snow were right and the post-Davis OPC and Peterson Liberals absolutely screwed us in the late 80's.)
nfitz
Superstar
It does seem to be the most significant. The ridership for some of those is pathetic. And it's clear that Midtown will never happen as a GO service with ridership like that.
Hourly GO Rail service to Cobourg does surprisingly well - and probably relatively cheap. I wonder if they'd stick to the CP track.
It's interesting to see that moving the Richmond Hill service to the CP tracks instead of the CN tracks is still on the table.
What's the source for this? I know the report is supposed to be released in 2025, but the Metrolinx website only seems to have the 2041 report, and the 2022 document.
I'd assume it's Ontario Line technology, as the 2022 document (which included subway projects) that implied it used the 407 Transitway corridor, like the Ontario Line loop that is also proposed.
canarob
Senior Member
Not a bad thing to pitch as a "nation building" project either as the feds have big money to spend on "major projects."