Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[reinventingthewheel]

Another privatized airport train comparison:

If you fly into Narita Airport just outside of Tokyo you can take an express train (Keisei Skyliner) into the city for about $22-24 CAD. It takes about twice the time of UP (~52 mins), and covers a little more than twice the distance (~62km, fewer stops). There are some approx. half-price alternatives anywhere from ~15-45 minutes longer.

As for the future of UP, I do want to see it transitioned into a frequently-operated level-boarded metro. To make it a more economic option while maintaining some earnings I think we would need to introduce fare zones, where the Pearson-Woodbine portion incurs the extra fee over a standard cheaper fare to travel between other parts of the line. This model is used on the Canada Line skytrain in Vancouver.

 

[nfitz]

This model is used on the Canada Line skytrain in Vancouver.

There's less need for an express train in Vancouver as the airport is so much closer to downtown. About 14 km instead of 24 km for Pearson and 22 km for Heathrow. Trudeau is about 16 km.

Once they rebuild the station at Pearson, I don't know why we can't have both - like London.

 

[11th]

I only just noticed these on the UP website:

 

[Bordercollie]

It was perceived as a better location for a broader catchment area than Etobicoke North. (I'm not saying I agree, but that was the stated rationale)

Also has been argued to have better potential as a transit hub and connectivity point, assuming Finch LRT is extended and this becomes the transfer point between the Kitchener line and Pearson Airport (a whole lot cheaper than diverting the whole GO/VIA line into Pearson). And Etobicoke North no longer has a good track configuration for an improved station.

And, the broader agenda was to get a developer to pay for a new station instead of funding it by taxpayer dollars - the quid pro quo being permitting the surrounding area to become a transit oriented community and an enhanced recreation site instead of just a racetrack and employment lands (again, I am not agreeing that the TOD community will amount to much, but certainly the developer and the racetrack will make out like bandits).(and as has proved to be the case, the slow speed of the development process has simply prevented moving forward on much-needed upgrades to the rail line, as this station was a prerequisite to completing the fourth track)

- Paul

So how are we getting another track past the Islington bridge? Are they taking out the service road?

 

[a2z]

Sorry to overdraw on previous thread - will note that a current privatized airport train that really only caters to business folks would be Arlanda Express (Stockholm), which has nearly half the annual ridership of Flytoget (~3.5million vs ~6.5million) despite relatively similar populations (but, thanks to its pricing, still reported 480M SEK in EBITDA ~= CA$70M)

Your options to get to the airport from Stockholm Central are:

• Arlanda Express: 18 minute direct train with base one-way fare 340 SEK (currently equivalent to ~CA$50!!)
• Pendeltag (commuter rail): 38 minute train that costs 190 SEK (~CA$28), o/w 147 SEK is a fee charged by the private operator to all non-Arlanda Express rail traffic accessing the airport (since it holds a monopoly, at least until 2050)
• Flygbussarna: ~40 minute airport bus that costs 129 SEK (~CA$19) that would not have any incentive to exist if not for that 147 SEK fee
• Pendeltag + Bus: ~55 minutes - take the Pendeltag to the terminus of a different branch (Marsta), and then transfer onto a bus that takes 10 minutes. This costs 43 SEK (~CA$6.50) since you don't have to pay that 147 SEK rail access fee, and therefore has emerged as a popular alternative (especially if you're located near the Pendeltag but not central)

 

[MisterF]

Sorry to overdraw on previous thread - will note that a current privatized airport train that really only caters to business folks would be Arlanda Express (Stockholm), which has nearly half the annual ridership of Flytoget (~3.5million vs ~6.5million) despite relatively similar populations (but, thanks to its pricing, still reported 480M SEK in EBITDA ~= CA$70M)

Your options to get to the airport from Stockholm Central are:

• Arlanda Express: 18 minute direct train with base one-way fare 340 SEK (currently equivalent to ~CA$50!!)
• Pendeltag (commuter rail): 38 minute train that costs 190 SEK (~CA$28), o/w 147 SEK is a fee charged by the private operator to all non-Arlanda Express rail traffic accessing the airport (since it holds a monopoly, at least until 2050)
• Flygbussarna: ~40 minute airport bus that costs 129 SEK (~CA$19) that would not have any incentive to exist if not for that 147 SEK fee
• Pendeltag + Bus: ~55 minutes - take the Pendeltag to the terminus of a different branch (Marsta), and then transfer onto a bus that takes 10 minutes. This costs 43 SEK (~CA$6.50) since you don't have to pay that 147 SEK rail access fee, and therefore has emerged as a popular alternative (especially if you're located near the Pendeltag but not central)

Malartag regional trains stop at Arlanda too. It can be easy to get on one of these trains instead of a commuter train going to the airport. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[cbrown2009]

So how are we getting another track past the Islington bridge? Are they taking out the service road?

This was just discussed elsewhere but I can't find exactly where right now. But there is room for the southmost section of the Islington overpass (circled above) to be hollowed out for another track. You can see the rail corridor's south retaining wall has already been aligned with this in mind.. First pic west side looking east toward Islington overpass, second pic east side looking westward at same.. (Both pics mine via Apple Maps)

 

[Bordercollie]

View attachment 696201
This was just discussed elsewhere but I can't find exactly where right now. But there is room for the southmost section of the Islington overpass (circled above) to be hollowed out for another track. You can see the rail corridor's south retaining wall has already been aligned with this in mind..

Sorry the link doesn't work.

 

[crs1026]

This was just discussed elsewhere but I can't find exactly where right now. But there is room for the southmost section of the Islington overpass (circled above) to be hollowed out for another track. You can see the rail corridor's south retaining wall has already been aligned with this in mind.. First pic west side looking east toward Islington overpass, second pic east side looking westward at same.. (Both pics mine via Apple Maps)

The dimensions are there.

Whether the necessary construction plan exists in ML's to-do list is another question.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

Sorry the link doesn't work.

See here HT @jcam

GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

Not sure if this is specifically the best place to put this but Go Transit Expansion or the lack thereof...

urbantoronto.ca

And then further down here HT @reaperexpress

GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

Still the city'problem I'd think. But surely a concept to deal with the road has been in place for decades. You'd never ddesign it like this these days. Yes the whole area was designed more than a decade ago when they were planning the Georgetown South expansion project. See this post: The...

urbantoronto.ca

cc @cbrown2009

Hopefully this is what you were mentioning/asking about.

 

[cbrown2009]

See here HT @jcam

GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

Not sure if this is specifically the best place to put this but Go Transit Expansion or the lack thereof...

urbantoronto.ca

And then further down here HT @reaperexpress

GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

Still the city'problem I'd think. But surely a concept to deal with the road has been in place for decades. You'd never ddesign it like this these days. Yes the whole area was designed more than a decade ago when they were planning the Georgetown South expansion project. See this post: The...

urbantoronto.ca

cc @cbrown2009

Hopefully this is what you were mentioning/asking about.

It is.. I tried to edit. Hopefully the pics went up.. Those links are what I was referring to though. Thanks..

 

[SaugeenJunction]

New on-train system maps:

 

[Allandale25]

New on-train system maps:

View attachment 698259

And a blue screen. Reminds me of:

 

[rdaner]

Several people got off at Mount Dennis today at ~ 5.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Several people got off at Mount Dennis today at ~ 5.

Yes, I was there today too and people were for sure getting off and on which is great. Rule of thumb in transit planning is that it takes about 3 years for people to change their travel habits when a new line opens, so it will only get better!