Zoning Reform Ideas

[evandyk]

But what stands out to me here is the cost of amenities. Most buildings get a crummy pool that's an oversized bath tub.......a gym you would never pay a membership for, and a party room you will likely never host a party in...

I would much rather rather strip those out as requirements, allowing builders to add them if they think it will appeal to their prospective renter/owner.

I generally agree that the cost of them outweighs the benefits to most users. But it really depends on how the amenities are designed. We owned in one building which had a fantastic rooftop patio with barbecues, which we used all the time. It also had a thoughtfully designed dining room, a billiards room, and a theatre room. We used all of those multiple times in the years we lived there. We also booked the party room for probably half a dozen parties, as it was in a great central location and had a nice dual indoor/outdoor space.

In the next building we lived in, I don't think we ever used any of the amenities. Part of that was that covid crashed entertaining for two of the five years we lived there, but the spaces we had were just not useful.

My wife did use the gym in both buildings regularly.

The newer buildings are getting co-working spaces, kids' play areas, and dog wash spots, which I imagine are fairly well-used.

 

[Northern Light]

I generally agree that the cost of them outweighs the benefits to most users. But it really depends on how the amenities are designed. We owned in one building which had a fantastic rooftop patio with barbecues, which we used all the time. It also had a thoughtfully designed dining room, a billiards room, and a theatre room. We used all of those multiple times in the years we lived there. We also booked the party room for probably half a dozen parties, as it was in a great central location and had a nice dual indoor/outdoor space.

In the next building we lived in, I don't think we ever used any of the amenities. Part of that was that covid crashed entertaining for two of the five years we lived there, but the spaces we had were just not useful.

My wife did use the gym in both buildings regularly.

The newer buildings are getting co-working spaces, kids' play areas, and dog wash spots, which I imagine are fairly well-used.

My argument is not against amenities. Its that government should not be requiring them.

Let the builder assess their value to buyers/residents/renters.

This would not preclude amenities, it would give some builders the option of focusing on price.

 

[evandyk]

My argument is not against amenities. Its that government should not be requiring them.

Let the builder assess their value to buyers/residents/renters.

This would not preclude amenities, it would give some builders the option of focusing on price.

I don't think you'd get any if they weren't required. Which is probably fine. Just wanted to acknowledge that when done right, they are great. I doubt they drive value, though, either for most purchasers or renters.

 

[txlseries4]

OP-ED in The Star by Dan Seljak, who has been busy this past year stirring up support for neighbourhood retail and this past spring led a Jane's Walk, "Neighbourhood Retail & Residential", in Seaton Village/Christie Pits

Opinion | When even the humble corner store is impossible to open in Toronto, it’s a sign of something deeply wrong​

When even the humble corner store is impossible to open in Toronto, it’s a sign of something deeply wrong

We need to accept that Toronto is now a big city.

www.thestar.com

"With an election on the horizon, now more than ever, we need candidates, both for mayor and council, who will clearly state their vision for Toronto and how they’ll get there. They also need to demonstrate they have the backbone to weather a flurry of opposition rather than caving to people who loathe what puts our neighbourhoods and city on the map. And we need trusted stewardship, both in the community and in government, from people who love both the Toronto that is and the Toronto that could be. Until then, maybe the best we can hope for is cranky deputations going viral enough to expose what we’re up against and what we are desperately missing."

paywall bypass

I spent a long time living in the suburbs and it feels like I'm getting gaslit when councillors rush to soothe those who seem to think Toronto should sooner resemble Port Perry rather than what it is -- the largest city in the country.

 

[evandyk]

It's especially weird because the businesses that do exist in interior neighbourhoods are pretty much universally loved. I can see (though I don't agree with) the complaint about Badiali's specifically, because it's true that a business that gets super popular and crowded disrupts a neighbourhood. But Badiali's is quite exceptional, thanks to the Best Pizza awards! The Finch Store or Tiny's don't create any disruption, they fit in seamlessly and provide valued amenities to people who live nearby.

Let the businesses open. If there are issues with garbage and parking because one of them happens to go viral all of a sudden, deal with those issues.

 

[txlseries4]

It's especially weird because the businesses that do exist in interior neighbourhoods are pretty much universally loved. I can see (though I don't agree with) the complaint about Badiali's specifically, because it's true that a business that gets super popular and crowded disrupts a neighbourhood. But Badiali's is quite exceptional, thanks to the Best Pizza awards! The Finch Store or Tiny's don't create any disruption, they fit in seamlessly and provide valued amenities to people who live nearby.

Let the businesses open. If there are issues with garbage and parking because one of them happens to go viral all of a sudden, deal with those issues.

One of the compelling arguments the other day (as someone already bought in) at committee was that these businesses run on thin margins and most don't survive, so there's an extreme incentive for an inner neighbourhood business to be a good neighbour and do all they can do avoid complaints. But sensible arguments don't get through to those already hysteric about this issue.

 

[afransen]

I don't think you'd get any if they weren't required. Which is probably fine. Just wanted to acknowledge that when done right, they are great. I doubt they drive value, though, either for most purchasers or renters.

Given the amount of marketing given to amenities, I'm not sure developers would omit them if not required.

 

[evandyk]

Maybe, though over the last two decades all the marketing was addressed at investors, not end users, and that investment pool seems to have dried up, so marketing could look different in the future.

 

[kEiThZ]

Given the amount of marketing given to amenities, I'm not sure developers would omit them if not required.

I think they would. It all depends on how much dollars per square foot they can get for that space.

 

[afransen]

I mean if amenities were a bare minimum requirement, they wouldn't be spending extra for high end finishes and furnishings etc. right?

 

[txlseries4]

The Mayor posted this on various social media channels yesterday, which caught my attention because it seems odd seeing as the recommendation for retail inside neighbourhoods was nixed from the item sent to Council from Planning and Housing Committee this past week on the belief that it would cause the item overall to fail. Is she trying to gauge reaction to move an amendment, or considering using strong mayor powers to get it through (I doubt it...), or something we'll see at a future Council session pushed through? Maybe nothing will come of it. Just seems like strange timing...

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[txlseries4]

Motion Josh Matlow says he will move this at Council on the item mentioned above:

 

[Northern Light]

Up on the City's Bid Portall is this:

I believe the intent is catalog, pre-approved designs that hit ZBA and should be permit-ready.

 

[Northern Light]

To me, this would be potentially sensible spot to pull what they did with sixplexes and just adopt it in Toronto/East York for now, and any suburban ward where the councillor supports it.

Let's see what motions were passed at Council today in respect of the neighbourhood retail issue..........and how well they reflect my thoughts.

And

Of course.........if I got some of what I wanted................some less appealing stuff happened too.

All in all, I'll take it.

 

[christiesplits]

Let's see what motions were passed at Council today in respect of the neighbourhood retail issue..........and how well they reflect my thoughts.

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And

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Of course.........if I got some of what I wanted................some less appealing stuff happened too.

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All in all, I'll take it.

Beat me to it!

Yes, I agree. I think it's a win. If the multiplex vote was any indication, it was going to be a tough sell for the suburban councillors.

I am thrilled for communities like The Annex, High Park and Leslieville, and hopeful we'll see these small shops succeed.