News   Dec 05, 2025
 243     1 
News   Dec 04, 2025
 846     1 
News   Dec 04, 2025
 1.1K     2 

Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

I rue the day that Mike Harris cancelled the Eglinton subway, which is how we got into this mess to begin with. Building subways was much cheaper back then. And we definitely overpaid for an inferior product. I still support the line we got, but a subway would have been much better I think. Subway vehicles just have so much more space versus a low floor LRT vehicle. Sometimes I think we got the worst of both worlds by spending so much on a line with so much grade separation with LRT vehicles, and it makes me worried that it'll be overcrowded, but if the usage doesn't overcrowd the LRVs then I am ok with it. TBD.
 
I share the same concern Dan. I'm unimpressed by what product we're getting, and I genuinely don't see how an LRT will work out in the long term on Eglinton. Subways just work better in being totally seperate from street level traffic and the ability to accomodate more people, including those who are disabled, with ease. (well, I guesss accessibility is a little tougher with underground stations).
It doesn't need to be said again, but building transit like this, partly grade seperated, and partly underground, is difficult to put into service as an effective, rapid form of transit, not to mention construction complexities in weaving between different grades and establishing different engineering and design guidelines on how to construct access points, tunnels and related infrastructure.

That being said, I'm glad this is being built. I just wish there weren't so many compromises made for this line. I don't think it's inaccurate to say it's going to potentially create more problems down the line with the expansion going on westbound.
 

According to the city, Line 5 and Line 6 will have "conditional TSP", which only works if the LRT is already late. The streetcars have a very weak form of active signal priority, called "unconditional TSP" by the city, something the LRTs somehow don't even have. Neither Line 5, Line 6, nor the streetcars have strong active signal priority/full active signal priority, which tends to include some level of signal preemption. We all know streetcars in the city, even on St. Clair are often stuck waiting for cars to turn left. And yet the city has the audacity to claim this is "unconditional" TSP, which is easily misinterpreted as real active signal priority by some people.

So to clarify, when most transit enthusiasts say X doesn't have signal priority, we mean the system(s) that always lets transit vehicles go first instead of waiting for cars to left turn etc... The system(s) where a transit vehicle approaching a red light will shorten the cycle and change it to green. None of which is implemented in Toronto, and none of which is planned to be implemented as best as I can tell. If European cities can give real priority to street-running trams, why can't Toronto at least give priority to "LRTs" running on median ROWs?
 
Last edited:
If European cities can give real priority to street-running trams, why can't Toronto at least give priority to "LRTs" running on median ROWs?
Because, with very few exceptions, we as a society don't care about transit. It is a liability, a charity service we run to tick some boxes in a bureaucrat's form. The system is working as intended.
 
I share the same concern Dan. I'm unimpressed by what product we're getting, and I genuinely don't see how an LRT will work out in the long term on Eglinton.
[...]
That being said, I'm glad this is being built. I just wish there weren't so many compromises made for this line. I don't think it's inaccurate to say it's going to potentially create more problems down the line with the expansion going on westbound.
I do think Line 5 Eglinton is definitely underbuilt for future ridership 10+ years away. Might even be overcrowded sooner.

However, I am also a big proponent of "if you build it, they will come". Since we evidently did not build it, densification like what we have seen along Bloor and south of Bloor will likely never materialize to the same level (barring a rebuild of Line 5). Ironically, this will dampen Eglinton's future transit demand and capacity issues if any. The skyscrapers along Line 4, many of which were built nearly two decades after Line 4 opened, are evidence that rapid transit access can serve as the cause rather than just the effect of densification and growth.

The long-term ramifications of having a not-so futureproof transit line on Eglinton is that it will be relegated to having a lower limit on future densification, job growth etc... Midtown NIMBYs rejoice. Once the transportation infrastructure along Eglinton becomes saturated, further urban development will move to other corridors and nodes that may have higher capacity eventually (i.e. Sheppard with extensions, Lawrence Ave if it gets a subway in the far-far-future).

Just based on current density, distance from Line 2 and Ontario line, and the fact UofT campus has 100,000 people every day, College-Carlton should have a short subway, Dundas West to Gerrard station ~9km. But because the Carlton streetcar exists, among other reasons, the corridor will not see nearly the same densification as Bloor or North York Centre. The density is lower than subway corridors, so the city is content with anemic streetcars. The streetcar is anemic, so density won't increase much. Obviously zoning comes into play as well. Low density housing near College and Carlton is rarely seen in any other city's downtown with the same density as Toronto, and likely will stay that way for the foreseeable future.
 
Last edited:
Perhaps the TTC would handle it better, but riding starting ten years ago? not very likely. Only if the funding came ten years earlier.
The funding was in place and the construction schedule was to start opening the line in phases from 2015 to 2021, including the western extension. The Liberals intentionally stretched out the construction phases to delay spending.
 
Subways just work better in being totally seperate from street level traffic and the ability to accomodate more people, including those who are disabled, with ease. (well, I guesss accessibility is a little tougher with underground stations).
I’ll note here that the TTC’s subway accessibility plan is about a decade past due, and by the end of this year, more than 10% of the stations still won’t have elevators. The subway line won’t be fully accessible until 2028, when Old Mill’s elevator construction is set to wrap up. That said, I expect it’ll probably be 2030, as deadlines keep getting missed.

I’ll also add that the TTC is also reliant on 3rd party landlords for the maintenance and repair of elevators to just even get down to concourse level at stations like Bloor/Yonge, Queen, Dundas and Osgoode. And so, it’s gonna generally be on those landlords’ time and dime if something fails.

Street Level, Level Entry will always be the most accessible form of transit.
 
I rue the day that Mike Harris cancelled the Eglinton subway, which is how we got into this mess to begin with. Building subways was much cheaper back then. And we definitely overpaid for an inferior product. I still support the line we got, but a subway would have been much better I think. Subway vehicles just have so much more space versus a low floor LRT vehicle. Sometimes I think we got the worst of both worlds by spending so much on a line with so much grade separation with LRT vehicles, and it makes me worried that it'll be overcrowded, but if the usage doesn't overcrowd the LRVs then I am ok with it. TBD.
It was 4 stations and also entirely missing the GO connections. I’m also disappointed we aren’t running metro-type vehicles on the Line5 that we built, but let’s not pretend that the old Eglinton West line was a great plan; or would’ve been any more successful than the Sheppard line.
 
The majority were completed less than 5 years ago. But when did assembly start? Aren't the cockpits built in Europe? I doubt they suspended production on them, which I believe started 10 years ago.

Who knows how long some of the completed sub-assemblies had been sitting in bins before they were finally assembled together in Kingston, 5 years ago.
Are the drivers' booths really called cockpits? (Slowest moving cockpits ever?)
Damned if I know - but I expect everyone knew what I meant. "Drivers booths" sounds more like a WC! :)
From following Indian Railways a lot:

1. The Driver's booth is called a cockpit;
2. The Operator is called a train pilot;
3. A trainset is called a rake=rame (French)

You weren't incorrect @nfitz

Sorry to go OT...
 
I do think Line 5 Eglinton is definitely underbuilt for future ridership 10+ years away. Might even be overcrowded sooner.

However, I am also a big proponent of "if you build it, they will come". Since we evidently did not build it, densification like what we have seen along Bloor and south of Bloor will likely never materialize to the same level (barring a rebuild of Line 5). Ironically, this will dampen Eglinton's future transit demand and capacity issues if any. The skyscrapers along Line 4, many of which were built nearly two decades after Line 4 opened, are evidence that rapid transit access can serve as the cause rather than just the effect of densification and growth.

The long-term ramifications of having a not-so futureproof transit line on Eglinton is that it will be relegated to having a lower limit on future densification, job growth etc... Midtown NIMBYs rejoice. Once the transportation infrastructure along Eglinton becomes saturated, further urban development will move to other corridors and nodes that may have higher capacity eventually (i.e. Sheppard with extensions, Lawrence Ave if it gets a subway in the far-far-future).

Just based on current density, distance from Line 2 and Ontario line, and the fact UofT campus has 100,000 people every day, College-Carlton should have a short subway, Dundas West to Gerrard station ~9km. But because the Carlton streetcar exists, among other reasons, the corridor will not see nearly the same densification as Bloor or North York Centre. The density is lower than subway corridors, so the city is content with anemic streetcars. The streetcar is anemic, so density won't increase much. Obviously zoning comes into play as well. Low density housing near College and Carlton is rarely seen in any other city's downtown with the same density as Toronto, and likely will stay that way for the foreseeable future.

I’ve been saying this for years now: LRTs work great in mid-sized cities like Hamilton, Kitchener-Waterloo, Calgary, Edmonton, and soon Quebec City. In those cities, the scale, street layout, and density match what an LRT can realistically support. But Toronto is operating at a completely different scale, and that’s where the problem lies.

If people thought Line 5 problems will end when it opens, they’re in for a big surprise. I predict overcrowding issues within a year of opening.

The thing is Line 5 was always an awkward compromise. Eglinton is one of the city’s major east–west corridors, and building a half-subway/half-surface LRT on it feels underbuilt for what that corridor actually needs. When you compare it to what Toronto has become (the fourth-largest metro in North America) it’s easy to see the mismatch.

There’s also still this lingering mentality (especially among certain political circles downtown) that Scarborough, North York, and Etobicoke are somehow “less Toronto.” But history keeps proving that whenever you extend real rapid transit into any part of Toronto, density follows immediately.

Examples are everywhere:
  • North York Centre: basically nothing until the Yonge Subway ran through it. Now it’s a full secondary downtown.
  • Yonge–Eglinton: exploded along Line 1.
  • St. Clair West: major mid-rise and retail revitalization after ROW upgrades.
  • Davisville/Mt. Pleasant: steady intensification due to Line 1 access.
  • Scarborough Town Centre: now booming with proposals since the subway extension became real.
  • Finch West: already seeing development pressure even before the subway/LRT combo is fully stabilized.
  • VMC (Vaughan Metropolitan Centre): an almost absurd example — a skyline built practically from scratch because Line 1 was extended there.
  • Exhibition/Liberty Village: GO service + Ontario Line plans triggered a massive wave of proposals.

Toronto grows wherever you give it high-capacity rapid transit. That’s why Line 4 (Sheppard) is one of the most misunderstood examples in the city. For years people mocked it as a “stubway to nowhere” because it ends at Don Mills, but the reality is Sheppard East has densified heavily in the last two decades with continuous condo development from Bayview to Don Mills. And more proposals still coming despite the line being short and incomplete and with planning for the extension to STC.

If four stations can reshape an entire corridor, imagine what the full Sheppard East subway would’ve done if it were built out originally?

This is why I was never a fan of Transit City. It wasn’t a bad plan for a smaller, slower-growing city,,,,but Toronto already wasn’t that city by the 2000s. It was driven by a political generation at City Hall and Queen’s Park whose view of Toronto was still rooted in the 1960s–70s: low density, car-first, and spread out. Toronto isn’t that anymore.

And Line 5 (like Line 4 before it) shows exactly what happens when we keep building transit that’s too small for the city we actually live in.

I would not be remotely surprised in my lifetime (possibly when I’m watching re-runs of The Expanse in retirement) that they rebuild Line 5 into a subway.
 
LRT is perfectly fine in big cities as part of a larger transportation network. They exist in some of the biggest cities in the world, as does BRT. Not every transit line in big cities has to the be highest capacity.

What's giving LRT in Ontario a bad rap is the fact that we generally build it is a glorified streetcar instead of rapid transit.
 
Every couple of weeks, this discussion is restarted. I get it: short of real news, people discuss things. We will soon (within months 🤞) have real data about loads and capacity on Line 5. Saying it's undersized right now is speculation. I hope it is big enough for many years. I have concerns about the dwell time due to the layout based on the TTC Flexities.

Anyway, I always appreciate the discussion, but it definitely seems like people repeat the same things
 
I think its going to be a fine transit line. Yes a Line 1,2,4 technology subway or Line 3 technology light metro would have been much more suited for this alignment but it is what it is.

I think we should all move on and put our energy into making sure a metro-sized service is never again built with street running LRT technology. Or pushing the city to reconsider Line 7 for another downtown subway.
 
I find this to be interesting messaging over by Eglinton and Allen where the line is entirely underground. I guess they gotta fill those bus shelter ad spots somehow.

And yes, tbat is a dead bus at the stop, in the first snowstorm of the year. I think that's the better ad for Line 5!
PXL_20251109_192810137.MP.jpg
 
I find this to be interesting messaging over by Eglinton and Allen where the line is entirely underground. I guess they gotta fill those bus shelter ad spots somehow.

And yes, tbat is a dead bus at the stop, in the first snowstorm of the year. I think that's the better ad for Line 5!View attachment 694587
Oh no we got a little bit of snow! Somebody check if RSD is still ongoing! I heard these things can't handle winter! /s
 

Back
Top