Mind_the_gap
Active Member
^ Thought this would be a pertinent use of the Metrolinx (T) roundel:
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Roads: Traffic Signals
- Thread starter reaperexpress
- Start date
trafficexplorerON
New Member
What do you think should represent turns?
Mind_the_gap
Active Member
The white vertical bar as it currently does. This would be easiest to implement, and give credibility to the Metrolinx "T".
BrenWilson
Active Member
The good thing about the white bar system is that the lack of colours rules out most drivers accidently thinking its a signal for them.
trafficexplorerON
New Member
Just to be clear, the Transportation association of Canada, which publishes the Canadian MUTCD does support diagonal white bars for turns, right? They're briefly mentioned in the Ontario Traffic Manual here, though it's still an HTA issue.
Does the TAC also support white triangles and horizontal white bars for yellow and red respectively?
Does the TAC also support white triangles and horizontal white bars for yellow and red respectively?
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Has to be studied and discussed by the Ministry of Transportation for Ontario (MTO) over ten or more years, using information based in the 20th century.
afransen
Senior Member
I fail to see a good reason why it should not be adopted. It is different enough from regular traffic signals to not brook any confusion from other road users, but still being intelligible.
trafficexplorerON
New Member
There's one thing besides the obvious HTA/OTM issue that complicates this further:
Right now, we can't really change any of the green thru arrows or green balls in transit signals to vertical white bars, because vertical white bars are currently used for turn priority. Places like Quebec instead use diagonal bars for such a purpose. So we would have to make a major change to what a vertical white bar means, which means changing most of the existing white bars in the Province accordingly.
nightstreak
Active Member
I don't frequent this thread regularly so forgive me if it's already been mentioned but I came across an in use example of the white bar transit light in downtown Toronto. The recently rebuilt York and Adelaide intersection has one and gives the southeast turning streetcar priority before cars (or pedestrians) get their green light.
If it can be done there, then it should be done along the entire King Street transit priority corridor. To this day, I can't get over how few drivers read any signage or seem to understand it. They do appear to look at lights and this sign would largely solve the problem. It would also help if the only green light that appears for drivers were a right turn green.
If it can be done there, then it should be done along the entire King Street transit priority corridor. To this day, I can't get over how few drivers read any signage or seem to understand it. They do appear to look at lights and this sign would largely solve the problem. It would also help if the only green light that appears for drivers were a right turn green.
trafficexplorerON
New Member
- (as stated above) A vertical white bar would imply that streetcars have turn priority as well, similarly to a green arrow.
- The OTM currently mandates that every signal has a circular red light and a circular yellow light. And not white transit indication besides the vertical bar is allowed.
nightstreak
Active Member
Sure, cars can't turn left on King Street anyway. Let streetcars have turn priority. No harm done.
A red light (that never changes) and a yellow light (that never turns on) wouldn't be of any detriment. On King at Yonge, there is a red light that never changes from red. But next to it, there's another series of standard round traffic lights under a TRANSIT SIGNAL sign that might as well not be there because drivers see a green light and they go. If there were a red and yellow light and white bar above the red, drivers would never get a green light regardless of whether or not they read any written signs.
trafficexplorerON
New Member
You do know that turn priority means that they don't also have to yield to pedestrian is cyclists, either, right? Or opposing streetcars going straight. Meaning that if you exclusively used a white bar, EB streetcars and WB streetcars would need their own completely exclusive phase, then pedestrians and right turning vehicles would also need a phase, during which you cannot show a white bar for transit.
BrenWilson
Active Member
I believe the current configuration you see, with the bar on top of a regular signal, is used for a general transit priority at that signal - not just for turning. So I don't see any potential conflict because you've never have both signals in the same place, and if you really wanted to be safe, a sign could be added to the existing signals to clarify their purpose.
trafficexplorerON
New Member
That still means that they can't be on for both directions at the same time, and they can't be on concurrently with pedestrian movements.
So about the transit signals with a red light, a yellow light, a green light, and a white bar. Without changing the legal meaning of the white bar, what transit aspects would you change each aspect to?
chrisw
Active Member
They can use an angled white bar for turn priority.