Finch West Line 6 LRT

[T3G]

I'm trying to find general switch crossing speeds for other LRTs and trams, they might just be that low. I don't believe there are many switches across the line (maybe a half dozen all in?)

No idea about elsewhere, but in Prague trams negotiate switches at track speed. They even have a few intersections with high speed switches that I think allow a top speed of 60 or so. Unthinkable around these parts!

 

[jmi22]

I'm trying to find general switch crossing speeds for other LRTs and trams, they might just be that low. I don't believe there are many switches across the line (maybe a half dozen all in?)

A CLRV running along Bathurst Street crosses two switches at Queen and Bathurst going at least 25km per hour in 2017. The incessant failure we are dealt here is not typical, and was in fact not even the norm just a decade ago.

I can't find a video of it, but the CLRVs accelerating quickly through the switches at Lakeshore and Kipling and causing the trolley pole to jump off it's guide for a moment releasing a bright spark is seared into my brain, so either I've gone crazy or streetcars crossing switches going 25km/ph and up was the norm for a long time.

 

[hw621]

If these all slow orders hold through even after opening day, i'd be in full support of having Finch West and Crosstown lines outsourced to another contractor for operations.

This inept organization is incable of running streetcars if their lives depended on it, and there's absolutely no need whatsoever for this non-sense and stupidity.

If we could, it would have been much better outsourcing the whole TTC. But no, the union is not going anywhere.

 

[Steve X]

If we could, it would have been much better outsourcing the whole TTC. But no, the union is not going anywhere.

ML should just revoke TTC's operating agreement and get someone with standard practices to operate it. These operating rules are absurd. Hopefully the new TTC CEO realize these BS and initiate a change in streetcar operating practices. Meanwhile enforcement cameras should be used for those making illegal turns during red phase and using streetcar/bus only lanes such as going straight on King or using the streetcar turning lane eastbound to Broadview.

 

[mr_content]

If we could, it would have been much better outsourcing the whole TTC.

Absolutely not. Outsource it to whom? No private enterprise has the resources to come in and do what the TTC does, or the motivation to do so at a loss.

But no, the union is not going anywhere.

Nor should they.

 

[BrenWilson]

Generally, if all interlocking systems are working correctly, you can go track speed in the "Normal" or "Straight" position. when in the "Reverse" or "Diverging" position the speed is dependent on the turnout angle. The mid line crossovers on Finch are at a shallower angle and so can be navigated at a higher speed than the 10 km/h signs that have apparently been posted.

Yeah 10 seems extreme, I would hope that these are part of the RSD testing but not for regular service.

 

[hw621]

ML should just revoke TTC's operating agreement and get someone with standard practices to operate it. These operating rules are absurd. Hopefully the new TTC CEO realize these BS and initiate a change in streetcar operating practices. Meanwhile enforcement cameras should be used for those making illegal turns during red phase and using streetcar/bus only lanes such as going straight on King or using the streetcar turning lane eastbound to Broadview.

In an ideal world, yes. It is Toronto, Canada, so nothing is going to happen.

 

[smallspy]

A CLRV running along Bathurst Street crosses two switches at Queen and Bathurst going at least 25km per hour in 2017. The incessant failure we are dealt here is not typical, and was in fact not even the norm just a decade ago.

I can't find a video of it, but the CLRVs accelerating quickly through the switches at Lakeshore and Kipling and causing the trolley pole to jump off it's guide for a moment releasing a bright spark is seared into my brain, so either I've gone crazy or streetcars crossing switches going 25km/ph and up was the norm for a long time.

Nitpick - the line was closed for much of 2017 for reconstruction. That video was shot in 2014 or earlier, as they'd already had rules about passing through the signalized intersections at reduced speed in 2015.

The stop-and-stay rule at switches came into effect well over 20 years ago, so your memories are even older than that.

Dan

 

[innsertnamehere]

A CLRV running along Bathurst Street crosses two switches at Queen and Bathurst going at least 25km per hour in 2017. The incessant failure we are dealt here is not typical, and was in fact not even the norm just a decade ago.

I can't find a video of it, but the CLRVs accelerating quickly through the switches at Lakeshore and Kipling and causing the trolley pole to jump off it's guide for a moment releasing a bright spark is seared into my brain, so either I've gone crazy or streetcars crossing switches going 25km/ph and up was the norm for a long time.

I was going to say that I remember a fair bit of consternation on this board when the TTC implemented the slow zones through intersections.

I also seem to recall discussions probably about a decade ago now on Steve Munro's blog about the TTC planning for upgrades to their switches to eliminate the need to stop before proceeding.. clearly nothing came of that.

 

[jmi22]

Nitpick - the line was closed for much of 2017 for reconstruction. That video was shot in 2014 or earlier, as they'd already had rules about passing through the signalized intersections at reduced speed in 2015.

The stop-and-stay rule at switches came into effect well over 20 years ago, so your memories are even older than that.

Dan

Thank you for the correction, I just assumed the posting date was also the recording date.

But seeing as I was just a twinkle in my mothers eye well over 20 years ago, I think we may have had some rule breaking by operators (to the benefit of passengers). The 507/Lakeshore route has always been the fastest in the city, and I still routinely see operators treat the stop-and-stay rule + slowing at switches with a little laxness, so I think it may just have been a case of that. The right of way is the widest on the streetcar network, so I think operators were just naturally moving faster.

 

[nfitz]

ML should just revoke TTC's operating agreement and get someone with standard practices to operate it. These operating rules are absurd.

What rules are you referring to? Obviously not the temporary limits during commissioning and testing.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

The TTC is forced to operate its streetcar network at a glacial pace because of underfunding. As mentioned elsewhere, Toronto has the slowest tram/streetcar network in the world, because of its tracks, switches, and "safety" rules. Line 5 and Line 6's tracks and switches should be up-to-date, however, may be micromanaged for "safety" concerns that the TTC uses for its streetcar network.

 

[nfitz]

As mentioned elsewhere, Toronto has the slowest tram/streetcar network in the world ...

As mentioned before, it doesn't have the slowest. It was only compared to faster systems, with less stops, less traffic signals, with many (most) with a lot more dedicated right-of-way. Massively cherry-picked.

 

[Bojaxs]

The TTC is forced to operate its streetcar network at a glacial pace because of underfunding. As mentioned elsewhere, Toronto has the slowest tram/streetcar network in the world, because of its tracks, switches, and "safety" rules. Line 5 and Line 6's tracks and switches should be up-to-date, however, may be micromanaged for "safety" concerns that the TTC uses for its streetcar network.

Why would the TTC operate the LRTs in a similar manner as the streetcars? People who defended the LRT projects insisted that LRTs are not glorified streetcars. Someone should probably remind the TTC?

 

[T3G]

The TTC is forced to operate its streetcar network at a glacial pace because of underfunding. As mentioned elsewhere, Toronto has the slowest tram/streetcar network in the world, because of its tracks, switches, and "safety" rules. Line 5 and Line 6's tracks and switches should be up-to-date, however, may be micromanaged for "safety" concerns that the TTC uses for its streetcar network.

No, they are not "forced" to do anything.

The TTC's safety conventions are the product of their own paranoia.