Alto - High Speed Rail (Toronto-Quebec City)

[generalcanada]

... or single track across Canada? Sorry,I couldn't resist.

Maybe some sections will be 4 tracks to allow local passenger and freight trains to operate without blocking HSR trains. It would not surprise me if the HSR is double track the entire distance. Just like how single direction trains are no longer a normal thing, neither are new built tracks.

yea the local passenger service will be important too

 

[micheal_can]

yea the local passenger service will be important too

Maybe not so much between Peterborough and Smiths Falls, but Between Ottawa and Montreal, the 2 stations likely should still be served even after HSR goes in, but it should not be HSR stops.

 

[Urban Sky]

Sorry, showing up late to this thread, so don't take these as direct replies so much as springboards for my points.

Counterpoint is that Yonge and Eglinton can be generally defined as midtown, and including St Clair. Summerhill is a grey boundary IMO.


Summerhill has long been contemplated as a relief station for Union, has it not? l I also reject the notions that GO trains through Summerhill and other spots along North Toronto / Belleville subs are merely 'interesting' or that it isn't something we can't be serious about.


Agreed, but I can see a link between frequent users of high speed rail to Ottawa and the Summerhill area, but that's a crass sentiment on my part.

What point are you trying to make with regards to Summerhill which I haven’t already addressed below?

Exactly: if you already have frequent commuter rail service to Union Station (i.e., at least one train every 15 minutes), additional services to midtown can be a useful addition to minimize travel times for a minority of passengers (i.e., for those for which Summerhill is more convenient than Union Station). Given that frequencies for intercity services are much less frequent, using Summerhill instead of Union Station for HSR (even a subset of the trips offered!) would be insanely stupid and nothing any serious investor would commit billions of dollars for…

 

[rbt]

Summerhill has long been contemplated as a relief station for Union, has it not? l I also reject the notions that GO trains through Summerhill and other spots along North Toronto / Belleville subs are merely 'interesting' or that it isn't something we can't be serious about.

In a hand-wavy sense on forums it has. The primary issue is the TTC Yonge line (or University line for that matter) cannot add a non-trivial number of transfers from a Summerhill (or Dupont) stop. Eglinton and St. Clair transfers already fill peak-direction rush-hour TTC trains; and those are exactly the trains a mid-town user would be looking to catch.

Realistically, for a mid-town line to feed office workers into downtown at even 10% of Union's capacity [anything less is not providing Union relief] will require something like a Bay subway line to be built.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I thought that the high speed rail from Toronto to Ottawa and Montreal was to replace VIA’s current service from Union Station. Are we seriously looking at reducing Union Station to a GoTrain and subway stop?

 

[micheal_can]

In a hand-wavy sense on forums; not for any realistic trip. The primary issue is the Yonge line (or University for that matter) cannot add a non-trivial number of transfers from a Summerhill stop. Eglinton and St. Clair transfers already fill peak-direction rush-hour TTC trains; and those are exactly the trains a mid-town user would be looking to catch.

Realistically, for a mid-town line to feed office workers into downtown at even 10% of Union's capacity [anything less is not providing Union relief] will require something like a Bay subway line to be built.

I have always wondered why a line straight up Bay - Avenue - Bathurst would make sense, but it still does not make Summerhill area or the Midtown Corridor more attractive than Union.

 

[micheal_can]

I thought that the high speed rail from Toronto to Ottawa and Montreal was to replace VIA’s current service from Union Station. Are we seriously looking at reducing Union Station to a GoTrain and subway stop?

My understanding is the existing Via service and frequencies are going to be maintained. They will still be out of Union. As far as ALTO,my expectation is it will also serve Union.

 

[Urban Sky]

I thought that the high speed rail from Toronto to Ottawa and Montreal was to replace VIA’s current service from Union Station. Are we seriously looking at reducing Union Station to a GoTrain and subway stop?

Thank you for highlighting the absurdity of the irrational obsession with Summerhill as a “downtown” terminus for ALTO! Some people in this thread seriously struggle with the idea that providing a single-seat downtown-to-downtown ride is the key competitive edge of intercity rail and that airlines are much better at providing fast random-suburb-to-random-suburb connections…

 

[T3G]

Counterpoint is that Yonge and Eglinton can be generally defined as midtown, and including St Clair. Summerhill is a grey boundary IMO.

But there's no rail station anywhere near Eglinton or St Clair, so how is where it's located relevant?

 

[nfitz]

I thought that the high speed rail from Toronto to Ottawa and Montreal was to replace VIA’s current service from Union Station.

The current services would continue from Union Station. Kingston to Ottawa, Montreal, and Toronto services would continue to run along the existing tracks.

 

[MisterF]

I would question any Alto link to Pearson with "why the hell did we build the UP Express?"

There was no high speed rail being planned in the early 2010s. The value of high speed trains going directly to hub airports is that they replace a lot of short connecting flights from places like Ottawa. I suspect that Air Canada's involvement signals that this will be an important part of the business model of Alto.

 

[rbt]

There was no high speed rail being planned in the early 2010s. The value of high speed trains going directly to hub airports is that they replace a lot of short connecting flights from places like Ottawa. I suspect that Air Canada's involvement signals that this will be an important part of the business model of Alto.

Trudeau/Dorval airport in Montreal will definitely have integration, but Pearson is an long way for anyone east of Peterborough and nobody west of Oshawa will take infrequent HSR (compared to GO service) to get to Pearson. There is lots of spare capacity at Trudeau for additional flights.

 

[micheal_can]

Trudeau/Dorval airport in Montreal will definitely have integration, but Pearson is an long way for anyone east of Peterborough and nobody west of Oshawa will take infrequent HSR (compared to GO service) to get to Pearson. There is lots of spare capacity at Trudeau for additional flights.

With the HSR linking the 3 cities, the 70+flights between them out of Pearson could be slashed. That would open up a lot more capacity.

 

[Admiral Beez]

My understanding is the existing Via service and frequencies are going to be maintained. They will still be out of Union. As far as ALTO,my expectation is it will also serve Union.

Why would anyone take VIA from Union to Montreal when you can do the same with HSR?

 

[micheal_can]

Why would anyone take VIA from Union to Montreal when you can do the same with HSR?

What about someone from Coteau?
My thinking is that the existing service will still be well used, but those that are going between the 3 major cities will use the Alto. Another way to look at it is between Union and Kennedy GO there are lots of subway stations. If GO RER ever becomes a reality with 15 minute service,those other stations are still going to be served,and most likely with the same frequency.