Toronto Lower Don Lands Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

[ADRM]

How many of those were pedestrian at fault?

It's a tragedy any time anyone gets killed.

But it's important to note whether this was a driver at fault or a pedestrian at fault - who did something that a driver couldn't avoid.

Some would like to blame drivers for all deaths regardless of the situation, but that's not reality.

Thankfully, we have Ontario-specific data from the officer of the Chief Coroner that indeed shows that in the majority of cases it's the driver's fault, which should be unsurprising given that the majority of fatal collisions in which a driver hits a pedestrian in Toronto occur in a marked crosswalk, and given that cross-jurisdictional at-fault findings are similar.

And, honestly, for those who aren't generally inclined to victim-blame, it shouldn't be at all surprising given that anyone can witness a litany of dangerous and illegal driver behaviour literally every single day. The Coroner's report provided a (much abridged) list of driver actions that often kill or maim people:

 

[hawc]

Sorry where's the actual

Thankfully, we have Ontario-specific data from the officer of the Chief Coroner that indeed shows that in the majority of cases it's the driver's fault.

Sorry, where's the data that show the number for drivers at fault vs pedestrians at fault?

I don't see that.

You just quoted a list of contributing factors on both sides to accidents.

 

[ADRM]

Sorry where's the actual


Sorry, where's the data that show the number for drivers at fault vs pedestrians at fault?

I don't see that.

You just quoted a list of contributing factors on both sides to accidents.

That is the finding of the Chief Coroner. Google the report yourself.

 

[TwinHuey]

Any sign of the new stairs from the Dundas bridge? (or the supports for same? )

We cycled over the Dundas bridge a couple of hours ago, but I hadn't seen your question.

Riding eastbound we were forced to ride in traffic due to some construction happening at the east end of the bridge.

However, I did stop to take a photo from the bridge (looking south).

 

[Northern Light]

We cycled over the Dundas bridge a couple of hours ago, but I hadn't seen your question.

Riding eastbound we were forced to ride in traffic due to some construction happening at the east end of the bridge.

However, I did stop to take a photo from the bridge (looking south).

View attachment 597151

Those look like support bases for stairs to me. So off the south side it seems. Thanks!

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

Sorry where's the actual


Sorry, where's the data that show the number for drivers at fault vs pedestrians at fault?

I don't see that.

You just quoted a list of contributing factors on both sides to accidents.

My bad actor radar starts going off when folks start to get defensive over the indefensible. Hope that's not where you are going with this.

 

[rdaner]

There was a public meeting tonight about the Portlands. Anyone attend?

 

[afransen]

How many of those were pedestrian at fault?

It's a tragedy any time anyone gets killed.

But it's important to note whether this was a driver at fault or a pedestrian at fault - who did something that a driver couldn't avoid.

Some would like to blame drivers for all deaths regardless of the situation, but that's not reality.

The first instinct shouldn't be to assign blame to users, but to consider whether the design of the infrastructure encourages safe behaviour or dangerous behaviour.

Users will always make mistakes, the key to sustainable safety is reducing the negative outcomes when they make those mistakes through safer design.

 

[hawc]

The first instinct shouldn't be to assign blame to users, but to consider whether the design of the infrastructure encourages safe behaviour or dangerous behaviour.

Users will always make mistakes, the key to sustainable safety is reducing the negative outcomes when they make those mistakes through safer design.

Sure. Up to a point.

You can only do so much to 'encourage safe behaviour' with some people. Certain folks will still find a way to put themselves in harm's way and then blame the thing that harmed them.

I guess it's a personal responsibility thing vs society is responsible thing.

Reducing the speed limit to 20km/h city-wide for instance would reduce pedestrian deaths. But pedestrians also need to not step out in front of cars that can't stop or avoid them.

I don't know if I'd call pedestrian neglience a 'mistake' any more than I'd call driver negligence a 'mistake'. We can't entirely design away stupidity without dumbing everything down for everyone.

Where does my personal line lie? I'm all for bike lanes (put them on every street!) and pedestrian signal advance for instance, but I find 30km/h and 40 km/h speed limits on main roads (Avenue, Yonge etc) to be goofy.

Other people will have other opinions.

 

[evandyk]

40 is way too fast to be driving on Yonge St. There are all sorts of things going on in a busy street like that which you can't be prepared to respond to at 40 km/h.

 

[hawc]

Yonge Street should be a 30km/h zone in your opinion? For all of it. From Steeles to the lake?

 

[Tuscani01]

Happy to see this but a bit surprised as I would assume bridge removal (Old Eastern and Enbridge). Would screw up the new paving. Maybe they will open from at least King to Corktown?

I’m pretty sure I received a notice from Metrolinx saying the paving was to provide access for bridge removal. I don’t think this is the final paving.

 

[DSCToronto]

I’m pretty sure I received a notice from Metrolinx saying the paving was to provide access for bridge removal. I don’t think this is the final paving.

As the bridges are being removed by Enbridge and WT, I doubt Metrolinx would be sending out bike path paving updates but .....

 

[UrbanAffair]

Yonge Street should be a 30km/h zone in your opinion? For all of it. From Steeles to the lake?

My guess, but I bet he means south of Bloor, or even south of St. Clair, where things are tighter, and there is a lot going on. I would go further, south of Bloor give me pedestrian only, and put those sweet euro-bollards up that go up and down depending on deliveries etc. Then make the speed limit there 10, for those trucks delivering. Something like that. Oh, I can dream...

I'm OT, I'll stop dreaming.

 

[Northern Light]

I'm OT, I'll stop dreaming.

Don't (stop dreaming).....

Big things are coming, maybe not quite to the level of your utopian dream LOL......but real progress.

All of Yonge south of Bloor will drop to one lane each way with wider sidewalks and trees.

All of Yonge from Bloor to York Mills will drop to one lane each way with Cycle Tracks.

Yonge through North York Centre will drop to 2 lanes each way, with Cycle Tracks and wide sidewalks.

The only leaves the unholy mess around the 401........that will never be good, but there are plans to make it better, one day, when hundreds of millions of dollars fall from the sky, and north of Finch.

Yonge south of York Mills being 30km/ph is not unrealistic; North of that, no, it will be higher; but less of an issue than today.