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Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

turbanplanner said:
To be fair, I hate that all these projects include the 30 year price tag. Inflation screws up past project numbers and those didn’t even include the lifetime costs. So people will say like we built the subway line for eight dollars in 1950 😂
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Almost nothing made public includes operational costs, it's kind of stupid.

Like nobody asks a builder to build a house for them and the builder says "That'll cost ya $9 million for capital works and 30 years of maintenance and property taxes".
 
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grammin said:
Nice summary by voilan above. My general take for what its worth.

Mr Verster was being a little too defensive initially but he softened up towards the end. I think that the project is close but anytime there is a software issue, there could be alarm bells going off on timelines. The physical side of the project has been largely overcome if not completed (other than surface works) which is a technicality for this project.

If the software is successfully rectified, I can see this moving quite quickly. Certainly not beyond 2024.

Still infuriating that he refused to commit to even an estimate. Could have easily set expectations appropriately IMO.
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An example from London from Crossrail - the communication was "2022", then "first half of 2022", and then the opening date was announced.
Give people the confidence that it won't open in 2025/26!
 
junctionist said:
I'm just speculating, but it sounds like something similar to my understanding of the situation with the Confederation Line in Ottawa, where there are serious issues preventing the normal operation of the line that they're struggling to correct and that will potentially require a large investment of time and money to fix.
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Agreed - the testing and commissioning of a brand new line takes a while, and as Ottawa has showed - you don't want to rush / half arse it.
 
voilan said:
Summarizing:
  • Verster:
    • They now have an internal schedule for all project elements, but will not announce a date as a result of recurring issues encountered during testing & commissioning
    • Commit to progress updates every two months
  • Technical update given on testing & commissioning problems thus far:
    • Issues with signaling requiring software updates, which require tests of their own
    • Widely discussed track issues
    • Groundwater penetration of stations and tunnels
    • Sloane stop repairs
    • Generally vague, but clear that process is not near completion
  • Remaining construction:
    • 400m of surface remaining to complete
    • Yonge and Eglinton is primary focus of remaining construction (watermains, road resurfacing)
    • "The stations look to be complete" barring testing and commissioning
  • Station occupancy permits:
    • Received for most surface stops
  • Other minor updates
  • Q&A:
    • Verster refuses to give a date due to lack of progress (mentions fleet and signaling issues), commits to giving a date upon completion of testing & commissioning phase and updates every two months (including quantitative updates on testing & commissioning)
    • Recent ruling that CTS litigation in May will be addressed through arbitration
    • Re-emphasizes that Metrolinx has an approximate date internally, but defects/issues mean lack of confidence in any date given to the public
      • Presumably this is an indication that "no credible plan" is no longer the Metrolinx position.
    • Couple of confrontational questions, Verster responds that he's accountable to Ministry and that new bimonthly presentations are a step up in transparency
    • Total budget (previously reported): $12 billion, currently at $12.56 billion
    • On Finch: Significant progress made, but all projects have been impacted by COVID (touts progress on various other projects)
    • "We're not that far away" on ECT, but ML must be confident on date before announcing
    • Testing & commissioning dashboard will be updated every two months, but not in real-time
    • ML and collaborators are committed to delivering projects as soon as possible
    • 1400 defects and deficiencies have been addressed, but new ones are discovered over time (general error, technical issues, miscommunications).
    • ML must be meticulous in "getting it right"
    • Do not draw conclusions from "every two months" (i.e. extrapolating out to much longer delay)
    • Commits that ECT will open "flawlessly" (EDIT: journalist asked whether Verster would stake his reputation upon it, Verster responds affirmatively)
    • Groundwater issues specifically mentioned at Keelesdale
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Great summary. I watched it as well. The one small addition I would make to the above is that Verster said once (and I think it was only once) that it was only three weeks ago that CTS told Metrolinx that there were "fleet availability issues". I think I heard him say this was the first time they've heard this. If I had to read between the lines, I think this may have been a significant recent factor in Verster withholding any kind of opening date or opening date range. It may have even convinced him to not provide it today even after they said last week they would this week.
 
There is one really good thing about the delays. When it does finally open Torontonians will be blessed with the slowest, lowest capacity, highest operation cost, most unreliable, and most disruptive mass transit rail system possible. Small wonder Verster won't commit to an opening date. When people start finally using it they will find that half of the route is no faster than Spadina and much slower than a standard semi-express bus.

Remember when Miller proposed Transit City as LRT because it would be much cheaper and much faster to build than a subway? I would love to see an interview with him now.
 
ssiguy2 said:
When it does finally open Torontonians will be blessed with the slowest, lowest capacity, highest operation cost, most unreliable, and most disruptive mass transit rail system possible.
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Ah, you have safely time travelled into the future, I see.

Can I have a spin on the time machine? I'd like to rearrange some aspects of my life.
 
drum118 said:
Yes as well Mississauga since they are the same cars
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Hold on a second here.

The issues with Ottawa stem from the trucks and the ways that they interface with their track geometry, especially at the speeds asked of them.

There is absolutely, positively, NO indication as yet that either Finch West or Hurontario will share those same issues, seeing as how those lines are predominantly straight, and will operate at far lower speeds.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
Hold on a second here.

The issues with Ottawa stem from the trucks and the ways that they interface with their track geometry, especially at the speeds asked of them.

There is absolutely, positively, NO indication as yet that either Finch West or Hurontario will share those same issues, seeing as how those lines are predominantly straight, and will operate at far lower speeds.

Dan
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I know for a fact that Mississauga cars will have all the issues fix that Ottawa cars have before they arrive. The first car was to arrive by year end, but no OS in place at the complex and the test line will not be completed until Q2 2024 at this time. Expect to see the delivery delay since the line will not open as plan by 6-12 months

I have yet to see a Finch car in testing and the track system is different from Crosstown and Mississauga.

ML has concerns what taking place in Ottawa for their cars regardless of speed and they will want the same changes as Ottawa cars to their cars. Both ML and the contractor have stated what every issues Ottawa cars have will be fix before been delivery for Mississauga.
 
I hope Calgary's new 48 km Green Line LRT which will also use low-floor trains doesn't have the same problems. I don't think they will as Calgary has a habit of doing things right the first time and often ahead of schedule and on budget. Calgary transit doesn't get the respect that its due and it has, for its relative size, the best transit system in the country. Toronto doesn't need more transit consultants, what they need is someone from Calgary to show them how to build effective LRT.
 
186262934.jpg

I feel so sorry for them
 
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