T3G
Senior Member
This is like a bad dream from which there is no waking.
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youngblood
Active Member
Guess not huh…
DSCToronto
Superstar
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You need to look at 'geography' and demand not just a one-dimensional map. Your idea is not easy 'geographically' due to ravines and it is not clear to me why anyone (or at least many folk) would want to transfer from/to the streetcar/Ontario Line where they would intersect.
Northern Light
Superstar
One more reason among many fine ones to put a slew of nails into the coffin of P3s.
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Its not merely that stuff can go wrong; it can and does on more conventionally procured projects as well; I've also discussed the cost issue at length and no need to rehash that.........
But its also the drain of in-house expertise from agencies like GO/TTC, the City/ the Province in terms of designing, managing and overseeing these projects. Between the structural move away
from direct oversight and the bleeding away of the staff resources that allow for same, you have a recipe for disastrous outcomes.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I wouldn't say it's a nail in the coffin, but the whole transference of risk as a benefit is so oversold as the rationale for going for P3.
AoD
AoD
yrt+viva=1system
Senior Member
I don’t get it. Why are they now concerned about trains travelling on curves? Did they forget to superelevate them?
CharmAlarm
Active Member
And it's not like it's a transit line with a lot of curves to begin with (with the exception of the MSF). So the fact that they have concerns about the trains operating along curves doesn't instil much confidence.
denfromoakvillemilton
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Metrolinx is not supposed to be building transit lines in the city in the first place. I am not sure where we go from here, because Doug just gave them four more projects.
Steve X
Senior Member
Yet they say traditional project delivery is bad cause TTC had a big overrun and delay with the TYSSE.
I would assume subway extensions won’t be that bad cause TTC owns the trains and would probably be able to provide feedback for trackage built to their standards.
I would assume subway extensions won’t be that bad cause TTC owns the trains and would probably be able to provide feedback for trackage built to their standards.
Railrunner
Active Member
Should have just made it a subway. By the time this opens we will need a subway on Eglinton anyways and it would have taken the same amount of time.
denfromoakvillemilton
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And even then, the TYSSE would have been open 2 years prior if not for the province and their hard on for York Region.
And people trust these guys with the Downtown Subway?
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Doug Ford's mentor, Mike Harris put a stop to the Eglinton West Subway, whose construction began in 1994 but was cancelled in 1995.
Railrunner
Active Member
I have heard about the cancelled ‘90s subway for my whole life hard to believe we are still paying a debt as a city for the mistakes of 30 years ago. Without Mike Harris the 407 would be Ontario owned and Eglinton could have been a subway line lines 1 and 2 by ~2005. The last 2 decades could have been focused on connecting the outer boroughs and downtown. Instead of failing to complete Crosstown which looks as though it will lack capacity from day 1 until the OL is complete in the mid-‘30s. Toronto transit history is more depressing than anything Cormac McCarthy has written…
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Worst was the downloading from the province to the cities.
Queen’s Park used to pay close to three-quarters of capital costs and half the operating costs for the TTC.
Housing, a social cost if there ever was one, became Toronto’s responsibility. He stopped paying for sections of highways and dumped the cost on the city.
There were others costs downloaded that the province used to pay for and which the cities now had to.
All to show that the province can save money, and they did. Except that the cities now had to pay for it.
Aplus23
Active Member
Why exactly are we going to need a subway on eglinton rather than LRT - does a Subway cab hold more ppl than an LRT cab. Or is that just another jab of the line not being fully grade separated ?