GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[crs1026]

As someone who actually had responsibility for the production of Sunshine Lists in my career, I can only say that it's a no-win proposition all round.

So long as the media is free to sensationalise any public wage increase, no matter how small, and so long as the public is free to bellyache about a janitor's salary, there is little room for objectivity nor incentive for politicians and public sector execs to think rationally about the problem.

Add to this the deeply felt mindset of most politicians in the Province (of every stripe) that their core duty is to deliver tax cuts.....

One thing that is widely overlooked..... public sector employees generally have far less access to tax relief than private sector employees, especially the self-employed who have far more access to writing off their homes, cars, entertainment expenses, etc. When you consider that anyone on the Sunshine List is likely in one of the highest tax categories, any added compensation they are given comes back to government possibly to the point of 40-50ish% taxation. And anything they retain and spend is likely paying HST at a further 14% rate. The biggest beneficiary of raises to government employees is..... our government.

- Paul

 

[Krypto98]

As someone who actually had responsibility for the production of Sunshine Lists in my career, I can only say that it's a no-win proposition all round.

I've never been a big fan of the sunshine list since it doesn't really list how many hours they worked. Yeah people get outraged when a nurse or ttc bus driver makes 100k a year but if they saw how much overtime they did...

 

[APTA-2048]

I've never been a big fan of the sunshine list since it doesn't really list how many hours they worked. Yeah people get outraged when a nurse or ttc bus driver makes 100k a year but if they saw how much overtime they did...

We've been conditioned to resent people who are being treated fairly instead of demanding the same fair treatment. That truly is the whole point of this list now, to keep people from demanding better.

 

[Bordercollie]

We've been conditioned to resent people who are being treated fairly instead of demanding the same fair treatment. That truly is the whole point of this list now, to keep people from demanding better.

Post COVID I think every organization is struggling with finding balance between efficiency and employee morale. A lot of companies don't know how to adjust to new norms and want to force everyone to go back to how things were in the early 2000's.

Also making over 100k shouldn't get you on the "sunshine" list considering the cost of living today.

 

[allengeorge]

We've been conditioned to resent people who are being treated fairly instead of demanding the same fair treatment. That truly is the whole point of this list now, to keep people from demanding better.

We see the same thing with pensions: as the private sector has cut pensions (and in many cases doesn’t offer them - I’ve never been offered one) people start to resent the pensions that the public sector has. We really do want to have our cake and eat it too: pay low taxes, buy as much as we want, be profligate in terms of living, and get gold plated services. It just doesn’t work.

 

[Bordercollie]

We see the same thing with pensions: as the private sector has cut pensions (and in many cases doesn’t offer them - I’ve never been offered one) people start to resent the pensions that the public sector has. We really do want to have our cake and eat it too: pay low taxes, buy as much as we want, be profligate in terms of living, and get gold plated services. It just doesn’t work.

Everyone from the private and public sector is having problems finding good people to work. Metronlinx is no exception, but maybe they can try some out of the box things to make the job more attractive. It's not always about money.

Also a bit off topic but do Hamilton and London crews take a cab from their base to their train in the morning? Does that deadheading time get counted as part of their duty hours?

 

[lenaitch]

I agree the hospital situation is more serious; and yet, I would argue less likely to galvanize Ontarians.

For the simple reason that far fewer people in any given month are likely to access a hospital ER vs public transport.

A problem you or an immediate family member/friend does not experience has much lower effect, typically, than those you are directly affected by.

It's also about votes. Riding-rich areas like the GTA haven't seen ER closures and even if they have, certainly not to the extent that rural areas have and besides, if ER 'A' closes in the GTA, it's not that far to the next one. Perhaps when people in the GTA simply can't access an emergency room, or ambulances are diverted to London or Barrie, then the government might take notice.

We calculated the number of Ontario’s ER closures this summer. Here’s what we found

In total, the closures represent more than 1,700 hours of inaccessible emergency medicine.

www.thestar.com

"The ER at Perth and Smiths Falls District Hospital was forced to close for three full weeks from July 2-24, which is counted as one closure in the Star’s data. Another, Glengarry Memorial in Alexandria, closed its ER every night for more than a month, and is counted as 37 separate closures in the Star’s data."​

 

[Richard White]

It's also about votes. Riding-rich areas like the GTA haven't seen ER closures and even if they have, certainly not to the extent that rural areas have and besides, if ER 'A' closes in the GTA, it's not that far to the next one. Perhaps when people in the GTA simply can't access an emergency room, or ambulances are diverted to London or Barrie, then the government might take notice.

We calculated the number of Ontario’s ER closures this summer. Here’s what we found

In total, the closures represent more than 1,700 hours of inaccessible emergency medicine.

www.thestar.com

"The ER at Perth and Smiths Falls District Hospital was forced to close for three full weeks from July 2-24, which is counted as one closure in the Star’s data. Another, Glengarry Memorial in Alexandria, closed its ER every night for more than a month, and is counted as 37 separate closures in the Star’s data."​

If any one of the downtown hospitals closed due to staffing issues you can bet your ass the money woulf flow.

To use a Dune metaphor, "the spice must flow"

 

[Bordercollie]

It's also about votes. Riding-rich areas like the GTA haven't seen ER closures and even if they have, certainly not to the extent that rural areas have and besides, if ER 'A' closes in the GTA, it's not that far to the next one. Perhaps when people in the GTA simply can't access an emergency room, or ambulances are diverted to London or Barrie, then the government might take notice.

We calculated the number of Ontario’s ER closures this summer. Here’s what we found

In total, the closures represent more than 1,700 hours of inaccessible emergency medicine.

www.thestar.com

"The ER at Perth and Smiths Falls District Hospital was forced to close for three full weeks from July 2-24, which is counted as one closure in the Star’s data. Another, Glengarry Memorial in Alexandria, closed its ER every night for more than a month, and is counted as 37 separate closures in the Star’s data."​

But you need to understand the context. In just the city of Toronto we have more than 30 hospitals. Plus another 30 in the surrounding districts. Smith Falls is only one hospital and it's next closest major metropolitan area is Kanata. It doesn't have as much buffer room to absorb an influx of patients.

So it's not all about votes. It's more to do with capacity and population base. I bet that one hospital has the same capacity as one of Toronto's smaller ones.

 

[Northern Light]

It's also about votes. Riding-rich areas like the GTA haven't seen ER closures and even if they have, certainly not to the extent that rural areas have and besides, if ER 'A' closes in the GTA, it's not that far to the next one. Perhaps when people in the GTA simply can't access an emergency room, or ambulances are diverted to London or Barrie, then the government might take notice.

We calculated the number of Ontario’s ER closures this summer. Here’s what we found

In total, the closures represent more than 1,700 hours of inaccessible emergency medicine.

www.thestar.com

"The ER at Perth and Smiths Falls District Hospital was forced to close for three full weeks from July 2-24, which is counted as one closure in the Star’s data. Another, Glengarry Memorial in Alexandria, closed its ER every night for more than a month, and is counted as 37 separate closures in the Star’s data."​

I don't disagree, but it still speaks to relative impact.

In Toronto, you're just as likely to face interminably long waits and more likely to face hallway medicine with stretchers lined up.

Its awful to face; but its still a comparatively small portion of the population or electorate at any one time.

 

[Bordercollie]

I don't disagree, but it still speaks to relative impact.

In Toronto, you're just as likely to face interminably long waits and more likely to face hallway medicine with stretchers lined up.

Its awful to face; but its still a comparatively small portion of the population or electorate at any one time.

Yes but we have more reasources to shuffle stuff around. But that only goes so far.

Historically concervative governments are not friendly to the public sector, take a book out of Steven Harper and Mike Harris.

If the liberals in Ontario could have chosen any other candidate then Del Duca they could have won more votes.

At the federal level, choosing Pierre is not going to win them seats in the GTA, BC or Alberta. So good luck to them winning the next election as long as Justin can play nice with the NDP. I think for them to win they need to choose a more moderate leader who isn't so extreme to one side of the spectrum.

 

[Northern Light]

We see the same thing with pensions: as the private sector has cut pensions (and in many cases doesn’t offer them - I’ve never been offered one) people start to resent the pensions that the public sector has. We really do want to have our cake and eat it too: pay low taxes, buy as much as we want, be profligate in terms of living, and get gold plated services. It just doesn’t work.

I'm not completely disagreeing............but I feel the need to tweak a bit........

I think everyone wants to share in the gains.

ie. Why don't you in the public sector negotiate for an increase in CPP/OAS/GIS instead of pension plan unique to you?

Fair? Not entirely, but in a world where increasingly few private-sector employees have pensions............entirely understandable.

Same goes for health benefits.

Put simply, if you're getting yours, I'd like mine. I understand that, and don't think its terrible.

I think it can have terrible consequences when taken to extremes (ie. if the neurosurgeon gets 800k, so should as the hospital porter). But that really isn't a wide spread thing.

People tend to get that difference. What the don't understand is "I'm an office cleaner in a downtown bank tower, employed by a third party, I get minimum, no benefits, and yet my taxes pay for a cleaner of a government building to get
a pension, health benefits and a considerably higher wage."

Again. the answer to that is to boost the private sector worker..........not lower the public sector worker. But public sector unions need to be cognizant of the sentiment just the same.

 

[Bordercollie]

I'm not completely disagreeing............but I feel the need to tweak a bit........

I think everyone wants to share in the gains.

ie. Why don't you in the public sector negotiate for an increase in CPP/OAS/GIS instead of pension plan unique to you?

Fair? Not entirely, but in a world where increasingly few private-sector employees have pensions............entirely understandable.

Same goes for health benefits.

Put simply, if you're getting yours, I'd like mine. I understand that, and don't think its terrible.

I think it can have terrible consequences when taken to extremes (ie. if the neurosurgeon gets 800k, so should as the hospital porter). But that really isn't a wide spread thing.

People tend to get that difference. What the don't understand is "I'm an office cleaner in a downtown bank tower, employed by a third party, I get minimum, no benefits, and yet my taxes pay for a cleaner of a government building to get
a pension, health benefits and a considerably higher wage."

Again. the answer to that is to boost the private sector worker..........not lower the public sector worker. But public sector unions need to be cognizant of the sentiment just the same.

Work in the private sector is determined by Market rate. You want to achieve X so you need Y. If paying Y doesn't get you the talent you want you need to pay more.

The public sector workers have contracts for a term (usually 4 years). So the union can only go back and ask for more money during the ratification process. Or sometimes they need to go and approach the government for help due to a shortage or a crisis. Similar to what is happening now.

The government has done some things to attract more people to work in healthcare but it takes time.

I think we just need to accept that we live in unprecedented times and cope with what we can.

Eventually it will even out. Just painful to get there.


In terms of Metronlinx not having crews, perhaps it's time to have a review of the operators performance and possibly make some changes.

In Toronto they outsourced half of the city to a private Garbage company. It resulted in efficiencies that they didn't find on both sides. Perhaps they should have different operators for different routes and measure their performance. Similar to YRT's arrangement with different companies that operate their equipment. If Alstom had some competition, maybe it will encourage them to do better.

 

[T3G]

Work in the private sector is determined by Market rate. You want to achieve X so you need Y. If paying Y doesn't get you the talent you want you need to pay more.

Unless the work is frontline retail, in which case the work left behind will be thrust upon the poor saps still left behind, with the wage savings going to pay for the boss' 7th yacht.

 

[Northern Light]

Work in the private sector is determined by Market rate. You want to achieve X so you need Y. If paying Y doesn't get you the talent you want you need to pay more.

Not precisely true. Labour regulation has a lot to do with whether you can unionize; and collectively bargain, a lot more private-sector employees used to be union.

That's not only a function of labour regulation, but the shift in jobs to retail and unions being under represented in that space historically; as well as challenges that have to do w/changing workforce demographics.

Franchising and contracting out really complicate efforts at collective bargaining.

That's why California's move to impose sectoral bargaining for Fast Food workers has huge implications.

The government has done some things to attract more people to work in healthcare but it takes time.

Healthcare faces some unique challenges......but a lot are quickly resolvable. Practical Assessments for foreign-trained professionals are employed in 7 provinces across Canada. The standards is 12 weeks to approve unsupervised practice.

Ontario is not one of those provinces. We sideline a lot of qualified, competent people in the process.

I think we just need to accept that we live in unprecedented times and cope with what we can.

Never. Accepting defeat and mediocrity is apathy, and antithetical to my nature.

In Toronto they outsourced half of the city to a private Garbage company. It resulted in efficiencies that they didn't find on both sides. Perhaps they should have different operators for different routes and measure their performance. Similar to YRT's arrangement with different companies that operate their equipment. If Alstom had some competition, maybe it will encourage them to do better.

The in-house workers are now as cheap, or cheaper, simply because they changed the size of the trucks they use, reducing deadhead time.

On the other hand...........this resulted in certain externalities on designing new buildings to allow for City-sized waste hauling trucks.

One must be careful about 'efficiencies' and whether or not one simply shifts expenses from one pocket to another.