kEiThZ
Superstar
Correct. Which is why this deep concern about addressing their car dependency is a bit over the top. They probably have other priorities.
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General railway discussions
- Thread starter Urban Sky
- Start date
Correct. Which is why this deep concern about addressing their car dependency is a bit over the top. They probably have other priorities.
crs1026
Senior Member
While I'm the first to rant about politicians and bureaucrats, services like the Tillsonburg bus strike me as the political/government process working productively. It's a balance between giving people what they say they want (which will always boil down to "leave me alone and lower my taxes") and going out on a limb to give them something they may not know they want (yet).
That's where I was going with my back of envelope math about what the property tax impact of the new Tillsonburg bus on local citizens. That service proposal was doubtlessly worked and reworked to get a budget figure that would be politically acceptable, meet the criteria for provincial funding, generate enough ridership to prove its worth, and provide a foundation for growth. I have a lot more respect for that effort than with how Metrolinx is planning its Monorail-flavoured projects and hiding the sticker price.
Accusing constituents of "car dependency" - or any other human failing - is a pretty good way for a politician to get unelected. The pundits and activists seem to like making judgements and putting down people who don't get it, but they don't have to run for office. From comments on the service (here) it appears that Tillsonburg's Mayor is able to stand behind the initiative. The Tillsonburg Mayor is taking a higher road and selling the value gained without tilting at any windmills. The dependency may be there for all to see, but there's no gain in pointing fingers.
Is it an anemic service plan? Absolutely. But I would call it a step towards success. Maybe when its shortcomings are felt, there will be pressure for more, and the naysaying will be muted.
I note that Ontario is providing funding, but in a very low value and low key way compared to the big transit spends. That's an interesting take considering they pride themselves on being a party with rural grass roots. Apparently the votes are in the cities. I would like to know whether the province subsidises Tillsonburg riders as well as they do urban riders.
- Paul
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kalis0490
New Member
@kEiThZ while I do not want to spam Tillsonburg with rail when it is not warranted ( the existing Tillsonburg intercommunity bus serves the places where Tillsonburgers : go see 2016 data below). I must say though that the railfan fantasys one sees in the via subforum are much more wild than a Tillsonburg-Toronto train. At least a train travelling from those cities would also serve cities like Brantford on the way..... but a Edmonton to saskatoon train would only really stop in Wainwright? (pop 6K)
PostScript: if one defines the necessity for a rail project as a city which has low car dependency or very few "Truck people". Then the waterloo ion is not justifiable in any way. There is no real traffic in Waterloo and transit has a mode share of 7% - lower than richmond Hill etc. My Question: Would you say that a project like waterloo ion is necessary or it is wasteful like a Tillsonburg train?
PostScript: if one defines the necessity for a rail project as a city which has low car dependency or very few "Truck people". Then the waterloo ion is not justifiable in any way. There is no real traffic in Waterloo and transit has a mode share of 7% - lower than richmond Hill etc. My Question: Would you say that a project like waterloo ion is necessary or it is wasteful like a Tillsonburg train?
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kEiThZ
Superstar
This is where a provincial regional bus system would be a good thing. And something I strongly support. It's probably likely to be better built too, when it's part of a whole network.
We know. And many of us think those are just as ridiculous. And driven by same utter lack of consideration of ridership or cost.
Good for them for putting their money where their mouth is. Waterloo contributed to building ION. They didn't just ask higher levels of government to fully fund construction and operation of their local transit. They raised taxes to pay for their portion too. Is Tillsonburg willing to raise taxes to build a proper feeder bus network to any rail service? Two routes once per hour doesn't count. If they and several other towns en route are, sure let's hear them out.....
PS. I do think Waterloo would have been better off with higher frequency BRT than a low frequency streetcar line. But whatever...
roger1818
Active Member
It isn't uncommon for there to be resistance from neighbourhoods on well and septic to switch to city water and sewage. Part of that is the eyewatering amount the city wants to charge for installation just for the privilege of being taxed for something they already have, and part of it is being happy with what they currently have.
just east of the creek
Active Member
Eye Watering is almost an understatement. Especially as the well and the septic have operated within all testing parameters for years, if not a few generations, well certainly after one generation decided to graduate from the outdoor privy in back of the garden. And don't get us started on hydro installing a couple of poles and line down the laneway. Next time I am just getting a really long extension cord.
roger1818
Active Member
Yup. My in-laws said that the City of Ottawa wanted to put their neighbourhood on city water and would charge each house $100,000 for the privilege. Their community association said no thankyou. Transitioning back on topic, they are apparently fighting to have a planned adjacent rail underpass changed to a be an overpass instead, for fear that the underpass construction would damage the aquifer.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
The thing I don't understand is that the bus is faster to get to Conestoga mall than the train. How does that make sense?
kalis0490
New Member
from where?? from uw to Conestoga the ion takes 10 minutes and driving takes 8 minutes. The 201 ( bus route which travels this) does it in 17 minutes according to google maps.
from waterloo town center to Conestoga the ion takes 14 minutes and driving takes 7-16 minutes. The 7 ( bus route which travels this) does it in 17 minutes.
These are the two most importation destinations for conestoga mall traffic
nfitz
Superstar
That surprises me given that the bus route is much more direct.
I bet the bus is competitive late at night. (when the mall is closed - LOL)
Bordercollie
Senior Member
When I rode it from central the bus passed us on the way and was already there when we got to the mall. My app was also telling me that the bus is 5 min faster.
Sunnyside
Active Member
Not going to dive into specifics because I don’t track my trip times as best as I could when I’m in school, but I regularly ride the ion for stretches far longer than from the Universities to Conestoga; the thing is slow. It takes an hour to ride from end-to-end, at least. It’s hardly competitive with a car in this stretch, and it’s one of the few sections actually in a mostly separated ROW. The thing grinds to a halt in downtown Kitchener and uptown Waterloo, erasing the time benefits it actually does see on the more separated sections. On most days the express buses, in my case the 201, can get you to your destination just as fast.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Slowing down at the crossings dont help. Can they not increase some of the 50KMPH sections to 70KMPH?
crs1026
Senior Member
I’m not sure what point this makes. iOn was not designed with speedy access to Connestoga Mall as its primary role. It provides a backbone for trips across K-W, certainly including the Mall, but not exclusively for that purpose.
Given the number of curves, turns, and centre/side-of-road transitions, it should have been apparent from the design phase that it would not be the fastest LRT out there. If the powers that be accepted that, they must have seen other benefits in mind. Such as the impressive development and densification all along the LRT’s route.
One much more appropriate test might be whether it has improved the access to UW from the far reaches of KW, meaning that students and staff were not tied to housing immediately adjacent to the university campus, and UW staff especially had an improved commute, making them less likely to drive to work, so fewer cars on the roads and on campus.
I find students have a very blinkered view of how their transit needs fit into the big picture. iOn is only partly about getting them to the mall.
- Paul
Bordercollie
Senior Member
The other thing i noticed is that the fare inspection is pretty diligent VS other LRT systems.