Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[sche]

They wern't part of the plan. Personally, I think the benefit of them is highly debatable and it seems to be something that some places embrace more than others for example in London only one section of a line has them and then even just opened a new section of aline and didn't use them on it. I think what we need to do is instead of just shifting the problem of people committing suicide by building barriers to it instead we should address it by trying to help more people who are mentally not well and need help.

Of course preventing suicides is preferable to building barriers to it. But, let's be honest, you can't prevent suicides 100%, and if somebody really wanted to do something like that, it would be preferable if they did it in such a way that it does not disrupt tens of thousands of other people who are using public transit, and in a way that does not potentially leave subway train operators with PTSD.

And platforms screen doors have lots of other benefits - you also prevent objects falling on tracks (like phones or wallets or other things) which may disrupt service, you increase boarding speeds since people can queue at the correct location every time, and you make better use of platform space since people are now able to stand all the way up to the edge of the platform. If they are full height platform screen doors, they also allow air conditioning or heating on the platform, which is especially useful on above-ground stations. Also, platform screen doors allow the train to arrive and leave the station at higher speed, since there is no safety concern of the train moving at high speed next to a crowded platform, and this could probably save a couple minutes on a long journey.

Platform screen doors are often expensive to retrofit due to ventilation, antiquated signalling, and other issues, and even on extensions they can be unfeasible if the line doesn't use ATC, but on new lines they're a no-brainer IMO. And on old lines that have modern signalling, half-height ones are probably a good idea.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Of course preventing suicides is preferable to building barriers to it. But, let's be honest, you can't prevent suicides 100%, and if somebody really wanted to do something like that, it would be preferable if they did it in such a way that it does not disrupt tens of thousands of other people who are using public transit, and in a way that does not potentially leave subway train operators with PTSD.

And platforms screen doors have lots of other benefits - you also prevent objects falling on tracks (like phones or wallets or other things) which may disrupt service, you increase boarding speeds since people can queue at the correct location every time, and you make better use of platform space since people are now able to stand all the way up to the edge of the platform. If they are full height platform screen doors, they also allow air conditioning or heating on the platform, which is especially useful on above-ground stations. Also, platform screen doors allow the train to arrive and leave the station at higher speed, since there is no safety concern of the train moving at high speed next to a crowded platform, and this could probably save a couple minutes on a long journey.

Platform screen doors are often expensive to retrofit due to ventilation, antiquated signalling, and other issues, and even on extensions they can be unfeasible if the line doesn't use ATC, but on new lines they're a no-brainer IMO. And on old lines that have modern signalling, half-height ones are probably a good idea.

I get the argument I'm just pointing out that a lot of places have built new lines or added to existing ones and they weren't used for various reasons.

I think a lot of people think that they are useful and that they should be added to every new project but it doesn't really make sense to me to add it to only a few places and not others like for example when the extrusion of line 2 is built I don't expect them to add them unless they actually plan to put them on the rest of the line.

Also I think that a lot of people have ideas of fantasy about them like thinking that having them will mean that the station is going to have HVAC systems installed in them.

 

[Johnny Au]

Cedarvale station on November 26, 2021:

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

They wern't part of the plan. Personally, I think the benefit of them is highly debatable and it seems to be something that some places embrace more than others for example in London only one section of a line has them and then even just opened a new section of aline and didn't use them on it. I think what we need to do is instead of just shifting the problem of people committing suicide by building barriers to it instead we should address it by trying to help more people who are mentally not well and need help.

The likely reaction by the non-transit using politicians...

 

[DirectionNorth]

I get the argument I'm just pointing out that a lot of places have built new lines or added to existing ones and they weren't used for various reasons.

Why? I personally don't see the downside other than cost, and that is minimal when you're building a new line.

I think a lot of people think that they are useful and that they should be added to every new project but it doesn't really make sense to me to add it to only a few places and not others like for example when the extrusion of line 2 is built I don't expect them to add them unless they actually plan to put them on the rest of the line.

Agreed.

Also I think that a lot of people have ideas of fantasy about them like thinking that having them will mean that the station is going to have HVAC systems installed in them.

It makes it much easier to install HVAC systems.

 

[rbt]

I get the argument I'm just pointing out that a lot of places have built new lines or added to existing ones and they weren't used for various reasons.

I think a lot of people think that they are useful and that they should be added to every new project but it doesn't really make sense to me to add it to only a few places and not others like for example when the extrusion of line 2 is built I don't expect them to add them unless they actually plan to put them on the rest of the line.

Also I think that a lot of people have ideas of fantasy about them like thinking that having them will mean that the station is going to have HVAC systems installed in them.

One major benefit is reduced station construction cost. If you assume platform doors will be in place, then you can also have platform edge pillars to support the roof, reducing the length of the horizontal spans.


IIRC, Crosstown stations were designed before TTC had a firm plan for ATO, shortly after platform edge pillars were removed from the Spadina extension.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

One major benefit is reduced station construction cost. If you assume platform doors will be in place, then you can also have platform edge pillars to support the roof, reducing the length of the horizontal spans.


IIRC, Crosstown stations were designed before TTC had a firm plan for ATO, shortly after platform edge pillars were removed from the Spadina extension.

Huh? How is their a reduction in cost to a sation by putting in platform edge doors? The crosstown wasn't designed for them because of the vechles selected for it would have no benefit from them.

The Spadina extension was designed for them to be added with no additional supporting elements for the station above. They were removed from the plans because of cost overruns due to the change in componies installing the ATC signal systems.

I also stated that the London underground has only one small section of a line that has them, hasn't added more or even put them on the newest sations. Platform edge doors do nothing.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

makes it much easier to install HVAC systems.

Which no subway systems actually have except for the staff. Adding it is a waste of money.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The likely reaction by the non-transit using politicians...

Nope it wasn't designed to have them because they make no sense on a low floor light rail line.

 

[Steve X]

Fleet switching would be impossible without a huge renovation since there isn't a standardization of door location or vehicle length with low floor vehicles. Sure they can ask for customization but articulation points and bogie locations would interfere with door location. On high floor vehicles, these aren't issues so the can design a new vehicle to match the door location of an existing fleet. They would be stuck with Flexity's for life if they put in PSDs.

Nope it wasn't designed to have them because they make no sense on a low floor light rail line.

Well, it can help with crowded platforms. Trains don't charge in cause they fear someone could have slip when they are pack to the platform edge. Track fire is not an issue with overhead rails.

 

[DirectionNorth]

Huh? How is their a reduction in cost to a sation by putting in platform edge doors? The crosstown wasn't designed for them because of the vechles selected for it would have no benefit from them.

The Spadina extension was designed for them to be added with no additional supporting elements for the station above. They were removed from the plans because of cost overruns due to the change in componies installing the ATC signal systems.

I also stated that the London underground has only one small section of a line that has them, hasn't added more or even put them on the newest sations. Platform edge doors do nothing.

Which no subway systems actually have except for the staff. Adding it is a waste of money.

Nope it wasn't designed to have them because they make no sense on a low floor light rail line.

Still can't see the downsides of reducing the risk of people falling onto tracks, faster boarding times, more comfortable stations, and faster train speeds.

If it's not in Toronto, we can't have it. That would be blasphemy against the all-knowing Toronto Transit gods! /s

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Nope it wasn't designed to have them because they make no sense on a low floor light rail line.

Wrong. The light rail vehicles are designed to use ATC in the underground section, with platform doors. Low floors have nothing to do with with. All the doors will be level with the platforms. It's the non-transit using powers-that-be (AKA accountants) that said "no".

 

[Richard White]

They wern't part of the plan. Personally, I think the benefit of them is highly debatable and it seems to be something that some places embrace more than others for example in London only one section of a line has them and then even just opened a new section of aline and didn't use them on it. I think what we need to do is instead of just shifting the problem of people committing suicide by building barriers to it instead we should address it by trying to help more people who are mentally not well and need help.

The Nine Elms extension on the Northern Line has provision for them should they be installed in the future.

Both Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station Station have them provision for them but funding was an issue.

In London, jumpers aren't as prevalent as they are in Toronto. There isn't as much need to install them there.

Some tube stations like Kensal Green, Amersham, Uxbridge or Mill Hill East have such low usage that there is no need for platform doors. Also, with the exception of Central London alot of the stations are actually above ground.

In Toronto however, I can foresee a homeless person destroying or damaging the doors. This would in turn, cause stations to be bypassed until the doors could be repaired or replaced.

 

[valvenis]

The Nine Elms extension on the Northern Line has provision for them should they be installed in the future.

Both Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station Station have them provision for them but funding was an issue.

In London, jumpers aren't as prevalent as they are in Toronto. There isn't as much need to install them there.

Some tube stations like Kensal Green, Amersham, Uxbridge or Mill Hill East have such low usage that there is no need for platform doors. Also, with the exception of Central London alot of the stations are actually above ground.

In Toronto however, I can foresee a homeless person destroying or damaging the doors. This would in turn, cause stations to be bypassed until the doors could be repaired or replaced.

Toronto already has platform edge doors on the Union Pearson Express for a few stations. They are at Union Station even though there's not a "need" to have platform edge doors there based on what happens on every other platform.

Oh - there's really no reason to use a homeless person as an example when imagining someone destroying or damaging the doors. Homelessness is not a uniquely Toronto problem and causing damage to transit resources and property (forcing open subway doors for example) is rare and not limited to a particular demographic.

Having platform edge doors on something other than the UPX could be helpful for changing the mindset of what's possible in Toronto.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Wrong. The light rail vehicles are designed to use ATC in the underground section, with platform doors. Low floors have nothing to do with with. All the doors will be level with the platforms. It's the non-transit using powers-that-be (AKA accountants) that said "no".

Having ATC doesn't mean that they have to have platform edge doors too. Someone pointed out that because of the type of vehicle having them doesn't make sense it would be like putting them in at Spadina, St clair West , Queen's Quay or Union station Streetcar loops. The track is not far from the platform level and there is no third rail for anyone to make contact with.