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VIA Rail

With faster speeds on the northern corridor how much faster can you get from Union to London through Kitchener instead of using the Dundas sub?

North Route 3:21
South route 2:19

Would be be possible to make it a 30min or 15 Mon difference?

Since they can travel through Guelph at 80km instead of 30kmph?

Coincidentally, I happened to be looking into this question last night. Here's my amateur summary of the practical speed based on the curve radii and availability of adjacent land for potential curve realignment:

Green: 90-110 mph (145-177 km/h)
Yellow: 65-80 mph (105-130 km/h)
Orange: 40-60 mph (65-100 km/h)
Red: <=30 mph (<=50 km/h)

Capture3.JPG


All of the curves away from stations can support at least 70 mph (112 km/h), and some of them even have radii of over 2000 metres, which means they can already support at least 95 mph (153 km/h) within the existing ROW, assuming 5-inch total superelevation (per @Urban Sky 's table based on the Transport Canada calculations) . The current tracks probably don't have high-speed spiral transitions in an out of the curves, but there's a good chance those could be accommodated within the existing property lines.

The only curves in the Kitchener-London segment which noticeably restrict speeds are the first and last curves in this group of 4 just west of Kitchener.

Existing ROW in black, proposed ROW in green.
Capture5.JPG


The middle two curves have radii of over 2000 metres, but the western one has a radius of 1500 m (80 mph / 129 km/h) and the eastern one has a radius of 1150 m (70 mph / 112 km/h). The eastern curve in particular seems like a good candidate for curve realignment given that the rest of the nearby alignment would support at least 95 mph (153 km/h).

Upgrading the line to the standards of VIA's Smiths Falls, Alexandria and Chatham subdivisions would produce a Kitchener-London travel time around 55-60 minutes, compared to today's 105 minutes.

The Metrolinx Kitchener Line expansion business case estimates a 90-minute travel time for GO trains making 9 intermediate stops in the scenario with a grade separation (which would presumably be a prerequisite for frequent VIA service). That corresponds to about a 75-minute travel time for VIA trains making 3 intermediate stops. Putting together the two halves of the line then produces a time of 2h10 from Toronto to London, which is exactly the same as the current travel time via Brantford.

I believe Guelph (and Acton?) will get pedestrian tunnels and a 2-track platform, but that's not as serious a choke point. The siding additions are said to be near the end of design but no procurement activity as yet.

Yes, the business case proposes new platforms and sidings at Guelph and Acton, though personally I don't think Acton needs a pedestrian tunnel or second platform given that the basic hourly service won't meet there. The only meets which would occur at that siding would be with CN, VIA or peak-period extra GO trains, and those don't need to serve the station.

The pedestrian tunnel at Guelph Central Station was already built in 2012 as part of the station's reconstruction. It's currently being used to access the passenger pickup area.
Capture1.JPG


A small portion of the second platform was also built over Wyndham Street, including this staircase which will become a secondary entrance.
Capture2.JPG


The only major work still required to install a second platform at Guelph Central is to build an elevator from the existing pedestrian tunnel up to platform level.
 

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Sounds like it wouldn't even be that hard to get Toronto-Kitchener-London down to under 2 hrs, so that it was permanently competitive with driving.
 
Nobody minds if Toronto-Peterborough and Ottawa-Montreal come into service by 2025 using diesel trains, while they work on Peterborough-Smiths Falls, Montreal-Quebec City and electrification (with possibly a new fleet) by 2030.
What is the plan for passenger rail to Peterborough? One of my kids is starting University at Trent and it would be a useful service if available from 2022-2025. If there’s no rail service, why does VIA maintain a station? https://www.viarail.ca/en/explore-our-destinations/stations/peterborough

EDIT, seems to be a 2030s project completion. Honestly, why does it take us a decade to take anything from ideation to completion? The tracks are (mostly) there, the station is there, why not just run diesel stock now?
 
What is the plan for passenger rail to Peterborough? One of my kids is starting University at Trent and it would be a useful service if available from 2022-2025. If there’s no rail service, why does VIA maintain a station? https://www.viarail.ca/en/explore-our-destinations/stations/peterborough

EDIT, seems to be a 2030s project completion. Honestly, why does it take us a decade to take anything from ideation to completion? The tracks are (mostly) there, the station is there, why not just run diesel stock now?
The "station" seems to be nowhere near the rail station, so I assume it's wherever this Toronto-to-Peterborough bus service last mentioned in the 2000-01-16 VIA timetable stopped:
1626872027793.png


So why does no rail service operate today? Maybe because the tracks are maintained only to minimum track maintenance levels, which result in speed limits which have certainly not improved since 2004:
1626872355765.png

Source: Canadian Pacific Railways
 
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My understanding is most of the Havelock sub today operates at a whopping 10mph since its in such hilariously terrible condition.

I'm not sure any of the crossings have crossing arms either. I used to drive regularly across an at grade crossing with the line about 5-10 years ago for my commute, and I saw a train on the line once and it was absolutely crawling.
 
What is the plan for passenger rail to Peterborough? One of my kids is starting University at Trent and it would be a useful service if available from 2022-2025.

I'd wait for the RFP. That said, I don't anticipate a contract close till 2023. And they probably won't have shovels in the ground till 2024. Your kid might get really lucky and see some train service in the last few months of school. But I wouldn't hold out hopes for that.
 
Haven't yet got the official presser for this morning's announcement in London; but a Windsor version is now pegged for tomorrow.

 

LOL........this is a Del Duca presser!

From the presser:

efforts will also be undertaken to determine how passenger rail services might be improved to better service markets west of Toronto, including London and Windsor.

And:

1626882534513.png


*****

So, let's follow along everyone: A presser was held to announce efforts to explore and talk.

That's it.

No new infra investments, no new services, not so much as an EA or a timeline.....

 
I'd wait for the RFP. That said, I don't anticipate a contract close till 2023. And they probably won't have shovels in the ground till 2024. Your kid might get really lucky and see some train service in the last few months of school. But I wouldn't hold out hopes for that.

Do folks in Peterborough understand how the proposed service will impact their city?

If I am understanding it, the new VIA service will run on the tracks that go through a very idyllic residential neighbour on the east side of the river (East City), including a very awkward diagonal currently at-grade rail/road crossing on Maria Street. There are many at-grade crossings along the route and a pivot bridge over the Trent canal as well. This seems like it will have a huge impact on the city but I haven't read anything about how they plan to deal with all of this nor any reaction from local residents.
 
Somehow even lower than what I expected! Ha ha. Sad.

@Urban Sky was on point when he predicted no new services.
I still predicted that the study area scope for HFR would be expanded to include SWO, which means I'm still underwhelmed by this commitment to things which sound more like a description of what you would expect a Transport Minister to do unprompted...

Do folks in Peterborough understand how the proposed service will impact their city?

If I am understanding it, the new VIA service will run on the tracks that go through a very idyllic residential neighbour on the east side of the river (East City), including a very awkward diagonal currently at-grade rail/road crossing on Maria Street. There are many at-grade crossings along the route and a pivot bridge over the Trent canal as well. This seems like it will have a huge impact on the city but I haven't read anything about how they plan to deal with all of this nor any reaction from local residents.
Peterborough will have to get a bypass anyways once services go beyond hourly service. The question now is just whether any trains will ever stop in downtown again or if there will be just a greenfield HSR station which could just as well be called after the next farm...
 
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Peterborough will have to get a bypass anyways once services go beyond hourly service. The question now is just whether any trains will ever stop in downtown again or if there will be just a greenfield HSR station which could just as well be called after the next farm...

Do they have too? Could they just trench and double/triple track the bit through town or is it just easier (and cheaper) to bypass? Seems to me that building a suburban station is poor for transit integration.
 

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