Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I would prefer a proper DRL, too. The problem is that I do not see any political group that is both strongly committed to DRL and has any chance of controlling the public purse.
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So, if the OL was to get cancelled now, it would be hard for me to predict the next move. Would a better version of DRL get resurrected quickly, or would we get another 10 years of debates and changing plans, with no shovels in the ground.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater - the main issue with OL is sizing of the infrastructure, not the concept per se (though community impact maybe a second now that the MSF is coming into focus). Anyways, why are we discussing it here and not in the proper thread?

AoD

 

[Rainforest]

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater - the main issue with OL is sizing of the infrastructure, not the concept per se (though community impact maybe a second now that the MSF is coming into focus). Anyways, why are we discussing it here and not in the proper thread?

AoD

The discussion topic has drifted First to Don Mills LRT, then to OL

 

[cplchanb]

On that note, apart from the ecological concerns how feasible would it be to build an interchange station at eglinton? It would be a great opportunity to link ect with go

 

[Undead]

If it was as easy as you say it is, it would've already happened. The problem with this (and the reason why Richmond Hill RER will likely never be a thing) really comes down to 2 things. 1) CP, 2) Interchange accessibility. The first issue is how do you get the Richmond Hill Line trains on to the CP Mainline. Even if we were to assume that the existing bridge is still in good condition and that physically getting onto the tracks is easy, you still have to deal with sharing tracks with CP for a 3+ km section, which if the Milton Line is anything to look at, wouldn't be the most convenient setup at running any form of. Best case scenerio you build the missing link, somehow manage to convince CP to use the York Sub (which is its own nightmare), and then you can have full access for the Richmond Hill Line, and even then you're still stuck with a few problems. First being these proposed interchanges. Sunnybrooke Park can work, Langstaff can work, Broadview though, uhm, good luck with that:

https://imgur.com/XIHsv8M

Finally then you have to grade separate Doncaster Diamond, and find a way to share tracks with CN north of said diamond which is certainly possible but altogether this project would be the most expensive RER project in the region, and what you get is at best an "okay" RER line. There would generally be a better cost to benefit ratio just to build another proper relief line, and do note I am saying this as someone whose closest GO line is the Richmond Hill line and would absolutely benefit from a Richmond Hill RER.

P.S. Metrolinx is planning to build a major GO RER MSF right at the foot of the bridge to the CP tracks, and plans to use the existing tracks to park their trains (although Via apparently wants to use that corridor for VIA HFR so this might be subject to change).

Not to mention the line would need to be floodproofed which IIRC is over a billion dollars.

 

[ARG1]

Yes, Ik, Wrong Channel.

On that note, apart from the ecological concerns how feasible would it be to build an interchange station at eglinton? It would be a great opportunity to link ect with go

First its a 300m walk from the nearest station at Wynford. 2nd The Richmond Hill Line is already pretty slow due to the curvy route, 3rd those ecological concerns are absolutely massive. Being able to avoid them is a massive if on its own right.

Not to mention the line would need to be floodproofed which IIRC is over a billion dollars.

For this proposed CP corridor choice, the flood plain actually isn't a concern. The section on the south part of the corridor leading up to the bridge is already being flood proofed as part of GO RER (because as I said, they're building a new storage facility on the south side of the bridge), and the bridge itself is way above the flood level, so that's not a concern either. The flood plain is a massive concern if we're discussing running RER on the former CN corridor however.

 

[Allandale25]

Not sure if it's been posted here yet but here's the video of the recent community meeting.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Not sure if it's been posted here yet but here's the video of the recent community meeting.

Ha - I missed the end of this the other day and can't believe they actually asked the two antagonistic questions I quoted in my summary
Interesting that the project sponsor actually used to live in the neighbourhoods (Romfield is just a bit closer to Bayview than Royal Orchard). Someone covered their butts smartly there, in terms of the optics.

 

[Allandale25]

Metrolinx Press Room

Find the latest Metrolinx news, project updates and more.

blog.metrolinx.com

 

[BMO]

What's been going on with the Gateway lands around Langstaff?

Also between 28:30 and 30:00 of the video was painful...for the VP of the subway project and technical expert. I guess you don't need to know why you're designing a subway

 

[innsertnamehere]

What's been going on with the Gateway lands around Langstaff?

Also between 28:30 and 30:00 of the video was painful...for the VP of the subway project and technical expert. I guess you don't need to know why you're designing a subway

The first development applications are in for Gateway right now and the developer is in the process of installing servicing for it from my understanding.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

The first development applications are in for Gateway right now and the developer is in the process of installing servicing for it from my understanding.

Yeah, there's info on the first towers here. Seems reasonable to assume the new alignment will have some downstream effects on what comes next...

Plans for First Project Materialize in Markham's Massive Langstaff Gateway Redevelopment | UrbanToronto

Development may begin in Markham's Langstaff Gateway area soon, as a zoning application has been made for a two-tower, 910-unit residential development near Yonge Street in this 47 ha/116 acre parcel of land beside Highway 407.

urbantoronto.ca

Dude did kind of pass the buck in that video. Doesn't seem hard to say the turn radii were going to be tight to get over to the rail corridor etc. Oh, well!

 

[GenerationW]

Transit City was for the missing middle ground for public transit, reaching most parts of the amalgamated city at the time. Why do you think the Don Mills LRT southern terminal was at Pape? Because it would have connected to a proposed Downtown Relief Line.

Lis, that's pure revisionism. There WAS no DRL in 2007's Transit City, nor was there anything approaching a serious DRL proposal by the time David Miller left office in 2010.

Pape was the southern terminal for the same reason the bus route it intended to replace has its southern terminal at Pape: it's on the subway line. And your DRL version ending at Pape plus a Don Mills LRT would not have provided anywhere near enough relief for Yonge.

I see. So this is David Miller's fault for bringing a motion to fund an EA 12 years ago?

It's kind of amazing that Miller is getting the blame here. Every transit project recently completed and currently under construction were/ Miller projects.

He also supported the DRL.

Miller was the only post-amalgamation Mayor who could actually get anything done.

The point is Miller never supported to the DRL as the city's #1 transit priority. Not even close. It took the province giving York Region its blessing in 2008 to push the Yonge extension forward for Miller to even bring up the DRL, and all he really did was request that Metrolinx move the DRL one level up from the "we might build it decades from now" category. It would have been very easy for Miller to produce a revised Transit City that included a DRL or some kind of auxiliary map. The DRL has a strong case to rank second to the original Yonge subway as the most important transit project in Toronto history, yet Miller's entire DRL advocacy amounted to asking Metrolinx to edit an appendix.

Rob Ford deserves blame for obvious reasons. Tory deserves blame for wasting too much time on SmartTrack. But only Miller had the money and opportunity with a relatively cooperative council to do what was right. He chose not to. And as per Transit City, the DRL wasn't even there to be chosen.

There's also Adam Giambrone's 2009 comment to NOW magazine for a DRL story when he said they'd consider the DRL but only after Transit City was completed, which, accounting for delays and politics, would have likely taken us to some time this decade. Miller & Giambrone's views on the DRL were quite clear: not interested now; maybe 10-20 years from now when we're long gone.

 

[syn]

Lis, that's pure revisionism. There WAS no DRL in 2007's Transit City, nor was there anything approaching a serious DRL proposal by the time David Miller left office in 2010.

Pape was the southern terminal for the same reason the bus route it intended to replace has its southern terminal at Pape: it's on the subway line. And your DRL version ending at Pape plus a Don Mills LRT would not have provided anywhere near enough relief for Yonge.

The point is Miller never supported to the DRL as the city's #1 transit priority. Not even close. It took the province giving York Region its blessing in 2008 to push the Yonge extension forward for Miller to even bring up the DRL, and all he really did was request that Metrolinx move the DRL one level up from the "we might build it decades from now" category. It would have been very easy for Miller to produce a revised Transit City that included a DRL or some kind of auxiliary map. The DRL has a strong case to rank second to the original Yonge subway as the most important transit project in Toronto history, yet Miller's entire DRL advocacy amounted to asking Metrolinx to edit an appendix.

Rob Ford deserves blame for obvious reasons. Tory deserves blame for wasting too much time on SmartTrack. But only Miller had the money and opportunity with a relatively cooperative council to do what was right. He chose not to. And as per Transit City, the DRL wasn't even there to be chosen.

There's also Adam Giambrone's 2009 comment to NOW magazine for a DRL story when he said they'd consider the DRL but only after Transit City was completed, which, accounting for delays and politics, would have likely taken us to some time this decade. Miller & Giambrone's views on the DRL were quite clear: not interested now; maybe 10-20 years from now when we're long gone.

It sure seems that way in hindsight. The problem is that it wasn't easy. That doesn't absolve him of blame, but pinning all of this on Miller is really quite silly.

Miller did not have have the funding to complete a DRL along with other major upgrades, hence Transit City.

Had the city moved ahead with the Scarborough LRT (which would already be done and operational) and faster with some of the key Transit City projects there's a good chance the DRL/OL is already under construction.

At the very least Miller got things done. That's why 11 years after he left office, the only projects either completed or with shovels in the ground are his.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Lis, that's pure revisionism. There WAS no DRL in 2007's Transit City, nor was there anything approaching a serious DRL proposal by the time David Miller left office in 2010.

Pape was the southern terminal for the same reason the bus route it intended to replace has its southern terminal at Pape: it's on the subway line. And your DRL version ending at Pape plus a Don Mills LRT would not have provided anywhere near enough relief for Yonge.

The point is Miller never supported to the DRL as the city's #1 transit priority. Not even close. It took the province giving York Region its blessing in 2008 to push the Yonge extension forward for Miller to even bring up the DRL, and all he really did was request that Metrolinx move the DRL one level up from the "we might build it decades from now" category. It would have been very easy for Miller to produce a revised Transit City that included a DRL or some kind of auxiliary map. The DRL has a strong case to rank second to the original Yonge subway as the most important transit project in Toronto history, yet Miller's entire DRL advocacy amounted to asking Metrolinx to edit an appendix.

Rob Ford deserves blame for obvious reasons. Tory deserves blame for wasting too much time on SmartTrack. But only Miller had the money and opportunity with a relatively cooperative council to do what was right. He chose not to. And as per Transit City, the DRL wasn't even there to be chosen.

There's also Adam Giambrone's 2009 comment to NOW magazine for a DRL story when he said they'd consider the DRL but only after Transit City was completed, which, accounting for delays and politics, would have likely taken us to some time this decade. Miller & Giambrone's views on the DRL were quite clear: not interested now; maybe 10-20 years from now when we're long gone.

The only bit I'd argue with is that at the time they were still thinking in terms of a third Miller term and a Giambrone coronation thereafter... In those terms the DRL might well have become Giambrone's mayoral legacy.

 

[afransen]

In many ways, OL is happening despite the city.