Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[superelevation]

I find the rapid transit on Line 1 and Line 2 also to be "slow", especially at approaches to the terminal stations.

Wait til you get stuck for 2 minutes between stations spaced 100m apart because someone in their van needed to turn

That's kind of the point.

The difference between Osgoode and the two stations you mentioned is that it's in the middle of a ~1km stretch that has 4 stations.


Low quality transit?

Are you telling me Scarborough residents won't use the Eglinton LRT because they'll deem it beneath them?

It's an essential service. What will they use instead?

Eglinton is low quality yes, you have to design transit differently when much of your market already has a car. The economics of transit and car use change a lot when people already have the car, since it costs so much most people figure they better use it.

 

[syn]

Agreed, need for elevators to be in working order is not a good reason for transit to be at grade mixing with traffic. Otherwise we should shut down the subways and replace them with buses.

Speed is important if the goal is to make transit an appealing option for crosstown trips.

I think the cost of construction and maintenance were very pertinent factors @drum118 mentioned.

Once this is up and running I think people will generally be happy with it, despite it's flaws.

 

[syn]

Wait til you get stuck for 2 minutes between stations spaced 100m apart because someone in their van needed to turn



Eglinton is low quality yes, you have to design transit differently when much of your market already has a car. The economics of transit and car use change a lot when people already have the car, since it costs so much most people figure they better use it.

When it comes to the economics of transit, commercial and residential density are two critical factors. Investing in the highest order transit makes sense if you have high density areas that will yield commensurate ridership.

If not, you're throwing money down the drain.

Sheppard is a perfect example of this. 27 years after construction began, the area is still suburban in nature. The line is woefully underused. It's basically an express route from Fairview Mall to Yonge-Sheppard. It doesn't matter how appealing you make transit when the rider/destination base isn't there.

 

[ARG1]

When it comes to the economics of transit, commercial and residential density are two critical factors. Investing in the highest order transit makes sense if you have high density areas that will yield commensurate ridership.

If not, you're throwing money down the drain.

Sheppard is a perfect example of this. 27 years after construction began, the area is still suburban in nature. The line is woefully underused. It's basically an express route from Fairview Mall to Yonge-Sheppard. It doesn't matter how appealing you make transit when the rider/destination base isn't there.

The area is woefully underused due to bad urban planning. Its a suburban area not because it is what it is, but because the city refused to upzone it. Toronto has insane housing prices due to high demand and very low supply. We can absolutely create more ultra dense corridors along these arterials. You don't build subways where high rises are, you build highrises where subways are.

 

[nfitz]

Wait til you get stuck for 2 minutes between stations spaced 100m apart because someone in their van needed to turn

Where do they have stations 100 metres apart? London?

 

[ARG1]

Where do they have stations 100 metres apart? London?

The distance from the furthest end of the Westbound platform at Golden Mile Station and the eastern platform at Hakimi - Lebovic Station is 100m

 

[Ozman]

Jan 01
All the rails are now being wrap with rubber like TTC, except in about 4' length including all rails already installed. Does this mean rails will have concrete pour between them like TTC in place of being exposed??

Has a major Opp's!! taken place??

On top of that, all rail already installed have been removed or in the process of doing so from the concrete beam support along with all anchor plates. This also means cutting the splice at intersections so the rail can sit on 4 x 4. Looks like some of the anchor plates being grouted into place under the trap. This allows the wrapping of the rubber for the rail and otherthings.

Didn't see it over at Pharmacy Area that was to be the first area fully installed and could be taking place, but over at Golden Mile Station 2 1 inch coated wires are being place under the rail.

...

...

They've now ripped up the (previously installed) track between west Don Mills portal and Sunnybrook Park stop. It looks like it does in the above photos. If they have to pull up the track and the all the anchor plates in order to install rubber around the rails why didn't they do this correctly at the time they installed the track the first time a year or two ago? I wonder how much this will cost to re-do and if it will delay things even more. Metrolinx released that over-head drone video showing how the at-grade section is basically complete but it was filmed in mid December - conveniently just before they started ripping out all the track (other than at the intersections and stops from what I can tell) that's been sitting there for around a year.

smh

 

[afransen]

I think the cost of construction and maintenance were very pertinent factors @drum118 mentioned.

Once this is up and running I think people will generally be happy with it, despite it's flaws.

Crosstown wasn't inexpensive. Where the money was deployed was not very effective. It should have been tunneled through midtown and elevated for the rest, including Eg West.

 

[syn]

Crosstown wasn't inexpensive. Where the money was deployed was not very effective. It should have been tunneled through midtown and elevated for the rest, including Eg West.

I didn't write that it was inexpensive, but it surely would've been more expensive if it was elevated.

 

[sche]

I didn't write that it was inexpensive, but it surely would've been more expensive if it was elevated.

How much more expensive though? There are places where elevated metro on Eglinton would save money:
- Smaller tunnel bore because no catenary.
- Deleting useless stops like Aga Khan, Pharmacy, Hakimi Lebovic, Ionview.
- No need for complete road reconstruction on Eg East.
- Moving Science Centre and Kennedy stations above ground.
- All stations can be shorter with identical capacity and frequency, due to the inefficient seating arrangements, insufficient number of doors, and large cab dead zones on LRT trains.
- Higher frequency and reliability from full automation and grade separation. Can probably further shorten stations without impacting capacity, due to higher possible frequencies. Very low headways will probably not be achievable on Eglinton as built due to the eastern section not being reliable.

And what do we get?
- Faster speeds
- Lower possible headways
- Full automation (no driver costs)
- Better reliability (no chance of cars blocking ROW)
- No chance of drivers crashing into trains (thus saving repair costs)
- No cars driving over tracks (tracks last longer)
- Less construction disruption (underground stations are shorter, thus less excavation, above ground stations built beside road like Skytrain, no road reconstruction)

 

[afransen]

I didn't write that it was inexpensive, but it surely would've been more expensive if it was elevated.

If bundled with Eg West extension, I doubt it would have cost more to build it elevated except through Midtown.

 

[syn]

If bundled with Eg West extension, I doubt it would have cost more to build it elevated except through Midtown.

Possibly, but given transit construction costs I doubt it.

I think going underground in the midtown areas was a good idea.

The street alignment is probably the best solution for urban growth in the area.

 

[KhalilHeron]

How much more expensive though? There are places where elevated metro on Eglinton would save money:
- Smaller tunnel bore because no catenary.
- Deleting useless stops like Aga Khan, Pharmacy, Hakimi Lebovic, Ionview.
- No need for complete road reconstruction on Eg East.
- Moving Science Centre and Kennedy stations above ground.
- All stations can be shorter with identical capacity and frequency, due to the inefficient seating arrangements, insufficient number of doors, and large cab dead zones on LRT trains.
- Higher frequency and reliability from full automation and grade separation. Can probably further shorten stations without impacting capacity, due to higher possible frequencies. Very low headways will probably not be achievable on Eglinton as built due to the eastern section not being reliable.

And what do we get?
- Faster speeds
- Lower possible headways
- Full automation (no driver costs)
- Better reliability (no chance of cars blocking ROW)
- No chance of drivers crashing into trains (thus saving repair costs)
- No cars driving over tracks (tracks last longer)
- Less construction disruption (underground stations are shorter, thus less excavation, above ground stations built beside road like Skytrain, no road reconstruction)

I think they meant if the surface section was elevated not if it were an elevated metro so the line would be the exact same in the underground sections. Science centre station would also probably still have to be underground with the current ontario line plan to avoid a really tall and ugly stacked interchange.

 

[robmausser]

I think they meant if the surface section was elevated not if it were an elevated metro so the line would be the exact same in the underground sections. Science centre station would also probably still have to be underground with the current ontario line plan to avoid a really tall and ugly stacked interchange.

Not only should Science Centre station still be underground with the "elevated" alignment, but they should have just kept the line underground all the way until Science Centre.

 

[Richard White]

Deleting useless stops like Aga Khan, Pharmacy, Hakimi Lebovic, Ionview.

A few things here...

Ionview is surrounded by apartments and will likely have alot of usage getting to and from Kennedy Station. Kennedy Station is not walkable from here.

Pharmacy is a major street in this part of Scarborough. There will likely be high demand here.

Hakimi-Lebovic has alot of commercial development around it and has a large redevelopment planned. When it opens it will be highly used.

Aga Khan is the one station I do think should have been eliminated.