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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

begratto said:
The Transit app shows the real headways, which are better than what the STM shows on these tables. They have improved the headways significantly in the past few years (well, since Projet Montréal is in power at city hall).

On weekdays, it's 5 minutes or better until 10:30 pm. Even at midnight it's still 8 minutes.
On Saturdays and Sundays, the headway is 6 minutes or better all day, and goes to 10 minutes on the green line starting at 22h45. It's every 6 minutes until 8pm, then every 8 minutes until 10:30, every 9 minutes until ~midnight and then every 10 minutes until closing time.

The only
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I'll take your word on it, I left Montreal early last year. And before I left, I mostly switched to biking since it seemed to be by far the best/fastest way to get around the city. I loved the Transit App, but I found that it seemed to be schedule-based instead of GPS-based (the STM bus-network didn't share its real-time location data), based on the number of "ghost" buses that would show up on the app but never came.

I think Toronto just spoiled my expectations of headway and operating time: I was used to catching a train at 1:45 AM in Toronto and not having to wait more than 5 minutes for it. It only takes a couple missed trains at 10+ minute headways in Montreal before you get irritable.

Compared to American systems, where 15 minutes is their rush hour frequency, we are lucky in Canada.
 
aquateam said:
...I think Toronto just spoiled my expectations of headway and operating time: I was used to catching a train at 1:45 AM in Toronto and not having to wait more than 5 minutes for it. It only takes a couple missed trains at 10+ minute headways in Montreal before you get irritable.

Compared to American systems, where 15 minutes is their rush hour frequency, we are lucky in Canada.
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I've been in Atlanta and New York City, during the non-rush hour, wondering if there was a problem up the line, when in fact it was the 10 to 15 minute headway.
 
W. K. Lis said:
I've been in Atlanta and New York City, during the non-rush hour, wondering if there was a problem up the line, when in fact it was the 10 to 15 minute headway.
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Frankly, that is the way it is in even many European rail systems.

For all the disparaging of the TTC, I think we forget how good we have it here in terms of frequency for both rapid transit and surface transit networks. We only need to visit the 905 to see how transit frequencies look like outside of the TTC.
 
WislaHD said:
Frankly, that is the way it is in even many European rail systems.

For all the disparaging of the TTC, I think we forget how good we have it here in terms of frequency for both rapid transit and surface transit networks. We only need to visit the 905 to see how transit frequencies look like outside of the TTC.
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TTC doesn't get nearly enough credit for how well it runs, especially considering it's pathetically underfunded.
 
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Compared to American systems, where 15 minutes is their rush hour frequency, we are lucky in Canada.
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W. K. Lis said:
I've been in Atlanta and New York City, during the non-rush hour, wondering if there was a problem up the line, when in fact it was the 10 to 15 minute headway.
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This is because so many American systems are heavily interlined -- they're designed this way, and quite honestly, at least for cities like NYC, San Francisco, Chicago, DC, and Philadelphia, it makes sense. Sure, I can wait 10 minutes for the C train during rush hour, but there's also the E train every 4 minutes and the A train every 4 minutes along the same corridor, for a total frequency of 36 trains an hour — you serve the core areas with super high frequencies and the suburban areas with frequent, albeit less frequent services.
 
A note on Sheppard from the Fleet Procurement Strategy which is going to TTC next week:

Lastly, the CIP identified the need to replace the existing fixed block signalling system on Line 4 with ATC in order to enable deployment of 6-car consists, matching capacity long-term ridership demand - this program is currently unfunded.

The TTC is seriously considering the need to to take advantage of the full length of the Line 4 (Sheppard) platforms and move to 6-car train lengths.

That is some serious $$$ to finish off the original stations (the structure is all there, but they were left w/o finishes (wall tile/ceiling some lights.)
 
Northern Light said:
A note on Sheppard from the Fleet Procurement Strategy which is going to TTC next week:

Lastly, the CIP identified the need to replace the existing fixed block signalling system on Line 4 with ATC in order to enable deployment of 6-car consists, matching capacity long-term ridership demand - this program is currently unfunded.

The TTC is seriously considering the need to to take advantage of the full length of the Line 4 (Sheppard) platforms and move to 6-car train lengths.

That is some serious $$$ to finish off the original stations (the structure is all there, but they were left w/o finishes (wall tile/ceiling some lights.)
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Pre-covid, trains were actually crush loaded during rush hours. It'd probably be cheaper long term for the TTC to just extend the train lengths to 6 cars (and have to worry less about running specialized rolling stock on sheppard) with today's frequencies than increase frequencies on the line in any way.
 
I used Sheppard Subway everyday in rush hours until this March and it was far from crush load. Not even Yonge line is at crush load at Sheppard-Yonge where hundreds of commuters from Sheppard subway make a bee line for southbound trains. Crush loads happens around Eglinton and south on Yonge line.

If they want to increase capacity at Sheppard line, won't it be cheaper to add 1 or 2 new trains to the line instead of spending on stations and on trains too.
 
Taking the above points individually:
  • "Standing Room" is hardly an indicator of crush capacity
  • The cost of such a small bespoke fleet may indeed be significant in the long term
  • At least having a ballpark price on full length platforms, especially going into any serious look at extensions, makes a lot of sense
  • I fear that extending the platforms now is more a prelude to through routing with Line 2 than anything else
 
Undead said:
In my experience, Line 4 is usually standing room only in rush hour.
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When I lived on the line, it really depended. Some trains were heavy standing room only, others were crush-loaded.

What was for certain was that they were all used, and that trains, despite being TRs, had different crowding levels in each car.
 
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