Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[jje1000]

I'm sure a line under bay or church would be easier, quicker, cheaper, and less vulnerable than a line under the current one.

Agreed- thinking about the depth needed and disruption caused to the existing infrastructure- I wonder if it would provide better value and coverage to create a parallel line that’s around a 5-15 minute walk away.

 

[TransitBart]

New Topic. I was reading Ben Spurr's article in the Star. I had another close look at the map. What can I say? They are eye candy.

In this forum, there has been a debate about the Exhibition terminus. The provincial government said this was a subway to "Ontario Place"

If the tracks were aligned east-west at Exhibition, then Exhibition GO / Ontario Line Exhibition would be a natural interchange.

I believe that the line is promoted with 6 interchanges. (Good - we've come as far as we can with hub and spoke)

1. Line 5 / Ontario Line - Science Centre
2. Line 2 / Ontario Line - Pape
3. GO Corridor East / Ontario Line - Gerrard Square
4. GO Corridor East / Ontario Line - Portlands / East Harbour
5. Line 1 / Ontario Line - Queen
6. Line 1 / Ontario Line - Osgoode

Why on earth did someone not add a seventh interchange (note to Metrolinx - these are called networks and they add redundancy, resilience and flexibility) at Exhibition?

7. GO Corridor West / Ontario Line - Exhibition / Liberty

 

[MisterF]

Another subway under Yonge Street or a parallel line a block away is a ridiculous idea. The ridership on Yonge is so high not because of Yonge itself, but because it's the only rapid transit option for vast swathes of the northern and eastern parts of the city and northern suburbs. People enduring long bus rides and then transferring. The fact that there's still no east-west subway through the financial district adds to the problem.

That's the whole point of the relief line going east and then north, and the reason that it has such high ridership projections - it will capture that ridership in the east half of the city so that people won't have to trek all the way to Yonge. Building it will divert riders away from Yonge, bring them closer to where they're actually going, expand the network, and add some much needed redundancy to the system. Doubling down on Yonge would do none of these things and would only reinforce existing problems.

 

[M II A II R II K]

There could be a tunnelled GO Yonge line under Yonge.

 

[WislaHD]

There should be no talk about an express Yonge Line until all riders who could be intercepted from the Yonge Line have done so.

 

[drum118]

Another subway under Yonge Street or a parallel line a block away is a ridiculous idea. The ridership on Yonge is so high not because of Yonge itself, but because it's the only rapid transit option for vast swathes of the northern and eastern parts of the city and northern suburbs. People enduring long bus rides and then transferring. The fact that there's still no east-west subway through the financial district adds to the problem.

That's the whole point of the relief line going east and then north, and the reason that it has such high ridership projections - it will capture that ridership in the east half of the city so that people won't have to trek all the way to Yonge. Building it will divert riders away from Yonge, bring them closer to where they're actually going, expand the network, and add some much needed redundancy to the system. Doubling down on Yonge would do none of these things and would only reinforce existing problems.

You have to have another line under Yonge regardless if an DRL/Ontario Line is built in the East and another in the west. The amount of density coming to Yonge St top to bottom as within a few blocks of it will not only replace the riders moving to those lines, but will be more than what exist today. You need to walk Yonge St top to bottom over time as well look what has taken place the last 10 years, what is currently plan for the street and vision what it could look like by 2050 when other blocks and area are develop.

Not everyone is going top to bottom, but some where along the line and other connecting routes.

What did Yonge look like back in 1900, 1940, 1960 and 2000 and you will see the need for another Yonge line around 2050.

 

[Toronto1834]

Latest update from the perspective of a residents group:
"From: RiverdaleSouth CAC

Hi Neighbours,

A not-so-brief update on what has transpired over the past few weeks, and what's coming up in January. This will be the last email from the Community Advisory Committee (CAC) of 2019.

RECAP OF THE DECEMBER 9th NEIGHBOURHOOD MEETING
We organized a community meeting on December 9 at Ralph Thornton Community Centre. The purpose of the meeting was to share the information and answer questions about the two GO Expansion projects (Regional Express Rail (RER) and Ontario Line (OL)) based on a meeting we had with Metrolinx in late November.

This was just a Q&A session, no future strategies were discussed. Key takeaways:

• GO expansion is now divided into two sections: East of Pape to Oshawa and southwest of Pape (our section).
• “Track preparation” for the GO expansion (formerly RER) is to begin Fall 2020 east of Pape/Gerrard to Stouffville. Tree clearing and track foundation work on the track southwest of Pape (our section) won't be until the spring of 2021. This means our treeline and park trees will stay for the foreseeable future and we will not have any construction work on our rail corridor, west of Pape/Gerrard to the Don River. A bit of good news for us!or now.
• Our section (southwest of Pape) will have the Ontario Line added to it. The Request for Proposals (RFPs) for our section will combine the two projects (RER and OL)
• Construction on our section would be 24/7 for years: GO Expansion overnight + Ontario Line during the day + Leslieville station construction + bridge reconstruction
• A reminder that the Gov’t has introduced Bill 107 which will allow new transit projects to be exempt from existing legislation (Planning Act, the Environmental Protection Act, and the Labour Relations Act). As such, there will be no new TPAP/EA (environmental assessment) for our section as they will use the existing GO Expansion TPAP (this has already been shared with you)
• Metrolinx has provided no updates on expropriations, though we can't imagine a way that 3 new above ground lines (1 for RER and 2 for OL) can be constructed without effectively killing our neighbourhood by the destruction of Jimmie Simpson and Bruce Mackey, and possibly expropriating homes/properties that are in close proximity to the tracks. They said homeowners effected (east of Pape/Gerrard) will be notified in the 'new year.'

HELPFUL RESOURCES
Still confused about the Ontario Line? This is the best summary of the issues, written by Toronto Transit Advocate, Steve Munro: https://stevemunro.ca/2019/07/27/the-ontario-line-metrolinx-initial-business-case/

"The section (Gerrard/Pape to East Harbour) along the rail corridor presents a number of problems that Metrolinx has not addressed including:

• The availability of space in the corridor for four GO Transit tracks plus two OL tracks, not to mention space for station platforms and access/circulation structures.
• The lateral separation requirements between main line railway operations in the GO corridor and the light metro technology proposed for the OL.
• The space required for electrification structures for the GO operations (support towers, overhead catenary).
• The space required for SmartTrack stations platforms.
• The implications of the OL tracks bracketing the GO corridor rather than running along the north/west side of it to provide “across the platform” transfer capability at East Harbour Station."

I've also attached a handout we developed "What Transit Expansion Means to You"

PETITIONS -- KEEP THEM COMING!
Peter's office has confirmed that there is no hard deadline to submit the petitions to his office, so please continue to collect signatures. Signatures can be from anyone (they don't have to live in the neighbourhood) so the holidays is a perfect time to politely harass your family, friends and visitors. Resending the petition again so you can print more copies.

NEXT STEPS -- ONTARIO LINE STRATEGY MEETING ON JANUARY 15
When: Jan 15, 6:30-8:30 pm
Where: Ralph Thornton Community Centre, 2nd floor

Our CAC is facilitating a citywide gathering of communities impacted by the Ontario Line. Our aim is to find our common OL messaging among our neighbourhoods, and to enlist the support of our communities to help 'action' out message to the City, Metrolinx, the Province and media about these issues regarding the coming Ontario Line. Ideally, we want to put pressure the Province at this early stage of planning to listen to the communities impacted and to act."

 

[BurlOak]

New Topic. I was reading Ben Spurr's article in the Star. I had another close look at the map. What can I say? They are eye candy.

In this forum, there has been a debate about the Exhibition terminus. The provincial government said this was a subway to "Ontario Place"

If the tracks were aligned east-west at Exhibition, then Exhibition GO / Ontario Line Exhibition would be a natural interchange.

I believe that the line is promoted with 6 interchanges. (Good - we've come as far as we can with hub and spoke)

1. Line 5 / Ontario Line - Science Centre
2. Line 2 / Ontario Line - Pape
3. GO Corridor East / Ontario Line - Gerrard Square
4. GO Corridor East / Ontario Line - Portlands / East Harbour
5. Line 1 / Ontario Line - Queen
6. Line 1 / Ontario Line - Osgoode

Why on earth did someone not add a seventh interchange (note to Metrolinx - these are called networks and they add redundancy, resilience and flexibility) at Exhibition?

7. GO Corridor West / Ontario Line - Exhibition / Liberty

They do have 7. It's the 8th that's missing, or if your putting them in order, the 8th exists, but the 7th is missing.
7. GO Corridor West (Kitchener Line) / Ontario Line - Liberty - Missing
8. GO Corridor West (LSE Line) / Ontario Line - Exhibition - Proposed.
Try finding a route from Queen to the Ex via Liberty? It's not easy.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.ca

 

[MisterF]

You have to have another line under Yonge regardless if an DRL/Ontario Line is built in the East and another in the west. The amount of density coming to Yonge St top to bottom as within a few blocks of it will not only replace the riders moving to those lines, but will be more than what exist today. You need to walk Yonge St top to bottom over time as well look what has taken place the last 10 years, what is currently plan for the street and vision what it could look like by 2050 when other blocks and area are develop.

Not everyone is going top to bottom, but some where along the line and other connecting routes.

What did Yonge look like back in 1900, 1940, 1960 and 2000 and you will see the need for another Yonge line around 2050.

Sorry but no you just don't need to have another line under Yonge. Toronto has such a barebones subway system that building new lines in other areas is basically always the best option. You don't determine these things just by walking along the street and admiring how much is getting built. You do it by analyzing travel patterns, which is just what the DRL background studies did.

Building a new subway under an existing subway would be a colossal expense, probably more expressive and definitely more disruptive that an entirely new line. Maybe when Toronto has a dense network of subways like New York or Madrid, and Yonge is still overcrowded like today, would it be worth considering. But that won't be in any of our lifetimes.

 

[Edward Skira]

Considering the amount of work putting the Eglinton LRT under Line 1 at just two spots (underpinning an active transit line) imagine doing that along the entire length? Madness.

 

[WislaHD]

TBH there are feasible options for building a second Yonge Line that I have seen speculated upon in the Transit Fantasy Maps thread.

The one option that intrigues me most is a configuration that has a new express-like subway built under Bay Street and eventually connecting to Yonge at Davisville, and taking over the Line 1 track north to Richmond Hill. The original Line 1 terminates at Davisville Station (or if it can be figured out how, extended one more stop to Eglinton). In terms of disruption, Davisville station would probably have to be shut down for a while but that is hardly a system-ending inconvenience.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

TBH there are feasible options for building a second Yonge Line that I have seen speculated upon in the Transit Fantasy Maps thread.

The one option that intrigues me most is a configuration that has a new express-like subway built under Bay Street and eventually connecting to Yonge at Davisville, and taking over the Line 1 track north to Richmond Hill. The original Line 1 terminates at Davisville Station (or if it can be figured out how, extended one more stop to Eglinton). In terms of disruption, Davisville station would probably have to be shut down for a while but that is hardly a system-ending inconvenience.

The next subway lines should 4 lines imo. Two express, two regular.

 

[salsa]

Sorry but no you just don't need to have another line under Yonge. Toronto has such a barebones subway system that building new lines in other areas is basically always the best option.

An important reminder while we consider the merits of a new Yonge line:

This is only about a decade after the opening of the Ontario Line. Clearly something significant will have to be done aside from just extending the OL to Sheppard. I'm not sure what the best solution would be... whether it's a new line in "other areas" (wherever that is) or an express subway under Yonge/Bay Street. However the latter cannot be dismissed too soon given that Yonge Street throughout history has proven to be the most significant growth corridor in the whole region, and will continue to be so through market forces and planning policy.

 

[JSF-1]

Personally I really think Toronto at some point should consider building a "Loop Line" which connects many other lines together. The hill i choose to die on is the re-establishment of the Belt Line in some form however any sort of loop line I think would be beneficial to Toronto whether it is a Subway line or a GO line. I look at cities like London, Berlin, Moscow, Tokyo, Osaka, etc. which all have loop lines connecting various lines together and the success they have with helping people get around whether it be transferring from one line to another, or avoiding a congested line/delayed line.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I'm worried that if the "new technology" to be used for the Ontario Line might be fine for when the line opens. However, what happens with the growing population numbers, with more and more crowds pouring into the Line 1 and Ontario Line. Will there be room for adding more capacity to the Ontario Line trains.

With Crosstown LRT Line 5, the station boxes are designed for expansion from the proposed 2 or 3 car trains to a maximum of 5 car train. (The 5 light rail car trains are equivalent in length to the 6 heavy rail car trains of Line 1.)