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Ottawa Transit Developments

WislaHD said:
Ottawans Are Already Calling Their Overcrowded New Train System A "Nightmare" (PHOTOS)
https://www.narcity.com/news/ca/on/...ding-are-already-frustrating-commuters-photos

Sensationalist reporting, and about yesterday's problems not today's, but not a great look.
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Sadly this was almost a given by deciding to restructure our network into a single point of failure. The equivalent in Toronto would have been to remove pretty muchevery streetcar and bus in the core and put everyone on the subway.
 
They launched with fewer trains than was prescribed. This has lead to overcrowding. Has rendered their dwell times insufficient. Which in turn means doors jamming as passengers try to leave or board with the very short dwell times. Which in turn has lead to major system failures. This morning's failures were spectacular. Just check out Twitter. Bus drivers were simply making calls on their own to head downtown and drop pax off, just to help out their pax. They really should not have launched without the 17 paired trains they had planned to launch with. They probably need closer to 20 paired trains to have a real-world capacity that ensures smooth operation at peak.

Also, it's becoming apparent, they would have been off with more traditional metro/subway rolling stock. More room to stand and circulate. The low-floor LRT, with front and rear facing seats, instead of perimeter seating leaves little room to stand. And those who stand are all crowded in near the doors. As a result, the trains just aren't filling up as they intended them to fill up. Further reducing capacity and exacerbating the above issues. Their estimate of 300 pax max per LRV is proving wrong in practice. Probably closer to 250 in reality.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1181914238769651712


kEiThZ said:
Also, it's becoming apparent, they would have been off with more traditional metro/subway rolling stock. More room to stand and circulate. The low-floor LRT, with front and rear facing seats, instead of perimeter seating leaves little room to stand. And those who stand are all crowded in near the doors. As a result, the trains just aren't filling up as they intended them to fill up. Further reducing capacity and exacerbating the above issues. Their estimate of 300 pax max per LRV is proving wrong in practice. Probably closer to 250 in reality.
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Well isn't this alarming for Eglinton? I know we are getting the Alstom trainsets but Eglinton is supposed to handle passenger demand many times more than Ottawa.
 
WislaHD said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1181914238769651712



Well isn't this alarming for Eglinton? I know we are getting the Alstom trainsets but Eglinton is supposed to handle passenger demand many times more than Ottawa.
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Eglinton demand is less than Ottawa I heard. 5k pphd versus 10 in Ottawa.

Ignoring the door issue entirely though the train will shut down eventually for something regardless of rolling stock or door issues. In not missing the forest for the trees OC Transpo really has shown they are unprepared and overly reliant on a single choke point.
 
WislaHD said:
Eglinton is supposed to handle passenger demand many times more than Ottawa.
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Given that it's not a segregated system and not planning on running paired trains, I really doubt this is the case. More than likely, it's the Confederation Line running multiples of Eglinton.

Kyle Campbell said:
OC Transpo really has shown they are unprepared and overly reliant on a single choke point.
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This "single choke point" is nonsensical rhetoric. Outside of Europe, cities of Ottawa's size don't have multiple parallel lines. Emergency bus service, as they are running is a perfect alternative, and disproves the "single chokepoint" argument. What is an issue is their implementation of their trunk line. Inappropriate selection of rolling stock. Poor configuration selection. Inadequate capacity at launch. Poor planning for station dwell times at high volume stations. These are all contributing factors to the problems being experienced. And mostly, easy to remedy, with simply adding more trains and boosting frequency. There'd be far fewer issues if they had ~20 paired trains and ran on 3 min headways.
 
kEiThZ said:
Given that it's not a segregated system and not planning on running paired trains, I really doubt this is the case. More than likely, it's the Confederation Line running multiples of Eglinton.



This "single choke point" is nonsensical rhetoric. Outside of Europe, cities of Ottawa's size don't have multiple parallel lines. Emergency bus service, as they are running is a perfect alternative, and disproves the "single chokepoint" argument. What is an issue is their implementation of their trunk line. Inappropriate selection of rolling stock. Poor configuration selection. Inadequate capacity at launch. Poor planning for station dwell times at high volume stations. These are all contributing factors to the problems being experienced. And mostly, easy to remedy, with simply adding more trains and boosting frequency. There'd be far fewer issues if they had ~20 paired trains and ran on 3 min headways.
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I don't mean multiple rail lines, I mean there was a major cut in bus service and frequency with this change besides the BRT routes that should have gone away.

But more trains in rush hour is definitely needed. Outside that you might argue the frequency is actually too high, the trains are quite empty. However the convenience of every 5 minutes is hard to beat so I hope they keep that.

Edit: An example is the 101 crosstown bus, now the 50 somethingerother which wasn't a Transitway route. It now ends at Lees rather then Hurdman, forcing many for a single and quite unnecessary 1 stop ride on the train.
 
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Kyle Campbell said:
I don't mean multiple rail lines, I mean there was a major cut in bus service and frequency with this change besides the BRT routes that should have gone away.

But more trains in rush hour is definitely needed. Outside that you might argue the frequency is actually too high, the trains are quite empty. However the convenience of every 5 minutes is hard to beat so I hope they keep that.

Edit: An example is the 101 crosstown bus, now the 50 somethingerother which wasn't a Transitway route. It now ends at Lees rather then Hurdman, forcing many for a single and quite unnecessary 1 stop ride on the train.
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I think this is your point about single choke point, which applies to non-downtown bus routes as well. Ottawa is in trouble as it cannot run enough trains to run the subway efficiently and reliably, a serious miscalculation.

There was also a serious error in assumptions made about Tunney's Pasture station. Too many passengers transferring at one location. This system is not robust enough as it is today to handle this and has been a concern of mine for ages. We are talking about at least 100,000 passengers transferring between buses and rail at one station. This is why Tunney's is the worst affected of all by the rail problems.

And then on top of that, Line 2 also backed up this morning at Bayview station. Not sufficient capacity to handle peak demand.

Since additional trains may not be available soon, some downtown bus service needs to be brought back to relieve pressure off the trains in the short term until a longer term solution is found (more trains)

Any comments about the Eglinton cross town should realize one thing. It is not necessarily the rolling stock. Just make sure there are enough trains to begin service without excessive crowding. Ottawa cut down the number of trains from 15 to 13 because of reliability problems assuming that 600 passengers should fit on each 2 car train. Alstom may be overstating reasonable capacity. Never plan for crush loading. .
 
lrt's friend said:
I think this is your point about single choke point, which applies to non-downtown bus routes as well. Ottawa is in trouble as it cannot run enough trains to run the subway efficiently and reliably, a serious miscalculation.

There was also a serious error in assumptions made about Tunney's Pasture station. Too many passengers transferring at one location. This system is not robust enough as it is today to handle this and has been a concern of mine for ages. We are talking about at least 100,000 passengers transferring between buses and rail at one station. This is why Tunney's is the worst affected of all by the rail problems.

And then on top of that, Line 2 also backed up this morning at Bayview station. Not sufficient capacity to handle peak demand.

Since additional trains may not be available soon, some downtown bus service needs to be brought back to relieve pressure off the trains in the short term until a longer term solution is found (more trains)

Any comments about the Eglinton cross town should realize one thing. It is not necessarily the rolling stock. Just make sure there are enough trains to begin service without excessive crowding. Ottawa cut down the number of trains from 15 to 13 because of reliability problems assuming that 600 passengers should fit on each 2 car train. Alstom may be overstating reasonable capacity. Never plan for crush loading. .
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Exactly. There's a reason this wasn't a problem during the 3 weeks of parallel service, or why it happens at pretty much the exact same time each day, because outside of 7:30 to 8:15 the trains have enough capacity. They don't in that 45 minute period each morning (the afternoon commute is much more spread out). It also means the system will fail at every special event until they have the frequency correct
 
So riding the train in the afternoon again, and the trains are comfortably full. They really just need the original 15 promised trains in the morning and it would do wonders (17 would be better). The afternoon rush hour is fine with 13. But of course OC Transpo had to go and ruin the whole thing by being cheap or incompetent in the morning rush
 
Kyle Campbell said:
Exactly. There's a reason this wasn't a problem during the 3 weeks of parallel service, or why it happens at pretty much the exact same time each day, because outside of 7:30 to 8:15 the trains have enough capacity. They don't in that 45 minute period each morning (the afternoon commute is much more spread out). It also means the system will fail at every special event until they have the frequency correct
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That has been another major concern, Canada Day. The C-Line needs to prove reliable when stressed. Failure at 10:30 p.m. on Canada Day can't happen.
 
Fantastic Tweet thread.

I would like to add that as platforms crowd more and more, the situation of doors being forced open by impatient commuters, the odds increase. It is not suprising that a 2nd forced-door event happened so soon after the 1st forced-door event.

Some delays are certainly procedural and could be optimized. But the doors must be Toronto-proofed too. TTC and Bombardier upgraded their doors to resist forcing (both LRTs and new streetcars), so they should Toronto-proof the Ottawa LRT doors. To allow misalignments to happen less often whenever they go in misalignment.

Fortunately, OC Transpo agrees.

Memo: O-Train Line 1 Update - October 9, 2019 - O-Train Fans

Please find attached a memo regarding O-Train Line 1 – October 9 delays during AM peak service, released to media by the City of Ottawa. ...
otrainfans.ca otrainfans.ca

Source : City of Ottawa

------

Here are the main key points from the memo for moving forward:

We are taking immediate action to resolve issues, minimize delays and communicate with our customers.

We are clarifying processes with our staff and eliminating attempts to repair doors on site. Operators and technicians are being instructed to immediately put trains back in service as soon as an affected door is closed and locked. If that is not possible, passengers will be cleared from the affected train and the train should immediately be removed from service. While this will temporarily inconvenience passengers on the affected train, it will clear the tracks quickly and significantly minimize delays throughout the system.

Furthermore, to assist our customers and reduce future incidences of door faulting we are:

• Adjusting dwell times (the amount of time a door is kept open) at stations aligning the timing to passenger volume and train frequency times;

• Asking Alstom to review all door issues to assess root causes and identify any issues or measures that can minimise door issues;

• Asking Alstom to review all door settings to assess if sensitivity settings are consistent across the fleet;

• Deploying customer representatives to platforms to remind customers:

  1. to stand clear of doorways for loading and unloading
  2. not to run for trains; and
  3. not to hold doors;
• Increasing customer service messaging using all channels to remind our customers of boarding and disembarking tips and suggestions;

• Making station announcements asking customers not to run for trains, to stand clear of doors and not to hold doors service; and

• Installing markings on platforms guiding customers on where to align at the doors to assist with loading and unloading of passengers.

_________________
 
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Kyle Campbell said:
It wasn't actually an hour the train was there. The train was moved within 20 minutes, and the trains continued to run in single track mode. However the backlog it caused took a full hour to clear.

This is the major issue as in no other city in Canada are we as totally dependent on a single line. Virtually every single commuter gets dumped at a confed line station, so while a Line 1 issue in Toronto does cause general headaches and grumbling, it doesn't bring down the whole TTC. A line 1 issue in Ottawa stops everyone.
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When are we building line 3?
 
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