Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

robmausser said:
That was the whole idea around Smarttrack, but it will only offer even limited relief if the fare is the same as TTC, its free to transfer from TTC to it and vice versa, and there are frequencies as good as every 5 minutes during rush hour.

Unfortunately I dont see GO RER/Electrification being done until 2025 at the earliest as well.

However I do think that the $3 GO flat fare for inside of Torontos borders would help even now. The problem is they will have to increase GO train frequency inside of the Toronto area to compensate and im not sure how many more trains they can squeeze on the existing service right now. The 16 new GO train engines they bought can carry 14 car trains, so maybe that will help.

The other things that will help relief in the meantime is Automatic Train Control on Line 1, due to be done at the end of next year. What this will do is allow for 33% more trains on line 1, running every 30 seconds! At rush hour.

I think some more express bus services will be needed as well in the interim, with large bendy buses offering nonstop rides between key stations.

Finally, and I know people hate this, but time based fares would help. If you offer people a discount for riding outside of rush hour, there are those who will definitely do it. I think politically this has to be massaged quite well. What they could do is after the next fare raise, lower fares outside of rush hour. Raising fares just for rush hour would be political suicide. Thats your voting demographic right there. So you make it look like an equal fare raise, and then after a year you advertise lower fares outside of rush hour.

These are all things that can be done before the Relief Line is ready, but they bring their own problem: political projects are usually in response to a bad situation. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Things dont get done until the problem has become so bad it becomes a voter issue. If you continue to remedy the problem with bandaid solutions, you delay when the problem becomes so bad that politicians MUST act. So by creating a "relief line for the relief line", you cause the issue to be deferred to a later and later date, and allow politicians to stretch out the date when the relief line is ready.
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"Running every 30 seconds"? Except when someone presses the emergency strip, someone holding the door to get a slower traveling companion on, or crew change.
 
lol I can only imagine the Presto clusterfuck for peak and off peak fares. At least let them figure out the transfers first lol
 
robmausser said:
The 16 new GO train engines they bought can carry 14 car trains, so maybe that will help.
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No, they can't. They're rated for the same 12-car trains that the MP40s are rated for.

robmausser said:
The other things that will help relief in the meantime is Automatic Train Control on Line 1, due to be done at the end of next year. What this will do is allow for 33% more trains on line 1, running every 30 seconds! At rush hour.
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The new ATO system could allow that many more trains to operate in theory (but 30 second headways are virtually impossible). That would however be dependent on having the trains to do it - they don't - and on having enough locations with which to turn back trains - they don't.

ATO will allow the minimum headway to drop from the current 141 second limit to around 120 or so, but that will require near-perfection in the operation at the terminals. They are currently the limiting factor in the system.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Now if you are saying that key stations (e.g. Broadview/West Harbour) should be designed with future subway lines in mind, sure - I'd totally buy that.

AoD
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Toronto subway needs to be double tracked sometime in the future. Hopefully this line is double tracked.
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
It is not, and it won't be.

AoD
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robmausser said:
Why? if you want express transit take the GO train. There are stations at the end of almost every subway line.
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Yonge line from Union north to Finch, and when extended, should be. There should be an express. Even if it is the major junctions, that would really alleviate the congestion on the line.
 
micheal_can said:
Yonge line from Union north to Finch, and when extended, should be. There should be an express. Even if it is the major junctions, that would really alleviate the congestion on the line.
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There are no plans to double-track Yonge - my guess is doing it will probably be even more expensive than building another N-S line given the complexity of the works.

AoD
 
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micheal_can said:
Yonge line from Union north to Finch, and when extended, should be. There should be an express. Even if it is the major junctions, that would really alleviate the congestion on the line.
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As others have outlined, there will be no 4-tracking of Yonge, the cost is utterly prohibitive and not worth it given that it doesn't create new geographic reach.

Moreover, except at stations, if you did want express service a 3rd track would generally be adequate in the age of ATC.

Though, its still not gonna happen.

Think of how you would get 2 more tracks into the various stations. The answer would have to be greater depth in most cases. To do so horizontally would involve buying up and tearing down many buildings on some of the most expensive land in the Country.

You could safely start the tab at 350M per station, plus tunnel costs and it could easily get worse. No value in going there.

The way congestion will be addressed is the Relief Line, ATC, probably 7th cars at some point, post-platform edge doors, and expansion of key stations from Y-B south.
 
Northern Light said:
As others have outlined, there will no 4-tracking of Yonge, the cost is utterly prohibitive and not worth it given that it doesn't create new geographic reach.

Moreover, except at stations, if you did want express service a 3rd track would generally be adequate in the age of ATC.

Though, its still not gonna happen.

Think of how you would get 2 more tracks into the various stations. The answer would have to be greater depth in most cases. To do so horizontally would involve buying up and tearing down many buildings on some of the most expensive land in the Country.

You could safely start the tab at 350M per station, plus tunnel costs and it could easily get worse. No value in going there.

The way congestion will be addressed is the Relief Line, ATC, probably 7th cars at some point, post-platform edge doors, and expansion of key stations from Y-B south.
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In the long run they should break up YUS.

AoD
 
Northern Light said:
As others have outlined, there will be no 4-tracking of Yonge, the cost is utterly prohibitive and not worth it given that it doesn't create new geographic reach.

Moreover, except at stations, if you did want express service a 3rd track would generally be adequate in the age of ATC.

Though, its still not gonna happen.

Think of how you would get 2 more tracks into the various stations. The answer would have to be greater depth in most cases. To do so horizontally would involve buying up and tearing down many buildings on some of the most expensive land in the Country.

You could safely start the tab at 350M per station, plus tunnel costs and it could easily get worse. No value in going there.

The way congestion will be addressed is the Relief Line, ATC, probably 7th cars at some point, post-platform edge doors, and expansion of key stations from Y-B south.
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Relief Line will help. ATC will too. Even 7 cars, if they can line up with the existing platforms will also help.

Reality is, right now, this line is in desperate need for some relief. An express tunneled line under the current line would be expensive, but the expense would be worth it.

I doubt it will happen till Relief North as well as the extension to RH is complete.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
It is not, and it won't be.

AoD
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robmausser said:
Why? if you want express transit take the GO train. There are stations at the end of almost every subway line.
Click to expand...

AlvinofDiaspar said:
There are no plans to double-track Yonge - my guess is doing it will probably be even more expensive than building another N-S line given the complexity of the works.

AoD
Click to expand...
Northern Light said:
As others have outlined, there will be no 4-tracking of Yonge, the cost is utterly prohibitive and not worth it given that it doesn't create new geographic reach.

Moreover, except at stations, if you did want express service a 3rd track would generally be adequate in the age of ATC.

Though, its still not gonna happen.

Think of how you would get 2 more tracks into the various stations. The answer would have to be greater depth in most cases. To do so horizontally would involve buying up and tearing down many buildings on some of the most expensive land in the Country.

You could safely start the tab at 350M per station, plus tunnel costs and it could easily get worse. No value in going there.

The way congestion will be addressed is the Relief Line, ATC, probably 7th cars at some point, post-platform edge doors, and expansion of key stations from Y-B south.
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Why not. If the relief line north is but, that will overflow as well in 25 years. Either that or RER will have to go everywhere sooner rather then later.
micheal_can said:
Yonge line from Union north to Finch, and when extended, should be. There should be an express. Even if it is the major junctions, that would really alleviate the congestion on the line.
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I agree.
 
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