Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

ksun said:
Considering the one stop Scarborough line will cost 2.9b, what he proposed wi
will probably cost 10 times at least？
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Lol and considering it will take 10 years plus just to build the section from Pape to downtown, what he is proposing will probably take 50 plus years.
 
I agree the Big J is a tall order to try to complete right away. I also agree that we shouldn't bicker too much about the alignment at this stage. We don't want further debate to be the excuse for not getting started. I will disagree, however, that the western half of the RL is any less important than the eastern half. I only see overbuilding in the east, from the Scarborough subway to the proposed Scarborough LRT to the two intermodal DRL/ST/RER stations at Unilever and Gerard. Nevertheless, we will need this infrastructure in the east, so go ahead and build it. It needs to be recognized, however, that the western half of the city is the fashion, media, and arts centre of the city, if not the country. When I go for recreation, play, and culture, it's places like Grange Park, King West, Trinity Bellwoods, Ossington, Little Italy, the Annex...These are important destinations for live, work, and play for both tourists and locals. I don't know why people on here are saying those areas shouldn't be serviced by more subway. University Ave. isn't really the west, which increasingly begins west of Bathurst. Anyone who has followed development patterns in the city knows the significance of areas like West Queen West, Bill Shuster Way, Liberty Village, the Garrison. Something similar is PLANNED for the Canary District, the Portlands, and the Unilever site. The problem is, most of those plans haven't come to fruition yet. I do love Corktown Common though...
 
Adjei said:
Are you living in la la land?
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Euphoria said:
I agree the Big J is a tall order to try to complete right away. I also agree that we shouldn't bicker too much about the alignment at this stage. We don't want further debate to be the excuse for not getting started. I will disagree, however, that the western half of the RL is any less important than the eastern half. I only see overbuilding in the east, from the Scarborough subway to the proposed Scarborough LRT to the two intermodal DRL/ST/RER stations at Unilever and Gerard. Nevertheless, we will need this infrastructure in the east, so go ahead and build it. It needs to be recognized, however, that the western half of the city is the fashion, media, and arts centre of the city, if not the country. When I go for recreation, play, and culture, it's places like Grange Park, King West, Trinity Bellwoods, Ossington, Little Italy, the Annex...These are important destinations for live, work, and play for both tourists and locals. I don't know why people on here are saying those areas shouldn't be serviced by more subway. University Ave. isn't really the west, which increasingly begins west of Bathurst. Anyone who has followed development patterns in the city knows the significance of areas like West Queen West, Bill Shuster Way, Liberty Village, the Garrison. Something similar is PLANNED for the Canary District, the Portlands, and the Unilever site. The problem is, most of those plans haven't come to fruition yet. I do love Corktown Common though...
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I think it's just taking too long. We need cut and cover in the worst way.
 
Just pointing out that we won't have a transit friendly Federal government and Provincial government forever. If we were in France or the U.K, I'd feel comfortable with the phasing. But in this political environment, the 50% funding for shovel ready projects from the Federal government is more likely a 1 time thing that we wont see until the next generation.

Therefore, the focus should have been on submitting the whole line in one shot. Taking a wild number like $20B, means that the Feds would pay $10B for the DRL, leaving the province and the city with the balance, which happens to be on Metrolinx list and a Liberal promise.
 
Get the central part done - we don't have much issues with extending lines outward - it's initiating an entirely new line in the core area that's the problem. Once that piece has started the rest of the pieces will follow.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Get the central part done - we don't have much issues with extending lines outward - it's initiating an entirely new line in the core area that's the problem. Once that piece has started the rest of the pieces will follow.

AoD
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Sheppard? SRT to Malvern and Seaton? Georgetown South/UPX? Eglinton Subway?

We need to build from the extremities inwards..... or it won't happen.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
Sheppard? SRT to Malvern and Seaton? Georgetown South/UPX? Eglinton Subway?

We need to build from the extremities inwards..... or it won't happen.

- Paul
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We are already building from the extermities inwards in everything - that's why we have having such a SNAFU in the core - and it didn't help an iota with getting inner city transit built. Just think - how many times have we extended extant lines outward? That's pretty much the only thing we have done in the past half century (unless you want to add the Spadina and Waterfront LRT into the mix, but that's nothing).

AoD
 
crs1026 said:
Sheppard? SRT to Malvern and Seaton? Georgetown South/UPX? Eglinton Subway?

We need to build from the extremities inwards..... or it won't happen.

- Paul
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Build from the extremities? that means adding more strain to the Yonge line during rush hour? I can't disagree more.
Your examples are off. Sheppard is already in the extremities in the city, did it get extended to the core? Sheppard is a mistake not because it was built, but because it should go south all the way to downtown, not serving as a feeder to Yonge. Toronto doesn't seem to have problems with extending subways to the middle of nowhere, judging from the Spadina extension and potential Yonge extension, however, it is building anything that is in the inner city that poses most challenges, because apparently, downtown already has enough subway! We build a $3b one stop subway in Scarborough instead of one on King five times the ridership.

Look around the world. Other cities always build from inside and extend outwards when necessary (when ridership warrants), because people want to go downtown, it is where the density is, not from suburb A to suburb B. Where do you want to RL to be located, between Steeles and Sheppard and take it from there, expecting it to be extended somewhere people actually want to go eventually?
 
They could at least start digging in the places that they know for sure where the line is going, like at the Unilever and Gerrard Square sites.
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
  1. City council already approved the Queen alignment (Pape to downtown at least) on March 31.
  2. Queen vs King is not subway vs LRT. Furthermore, the Relief Line is not in Scarborough. If someone tries to start a debate about the alignment at city hall, it will be shot down.
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The only way a Queen alignment can possibly work is if a Union Station GO train tunnel goes ahead at the same time. Putting the DRL on Queen is going to leave waterfront residents heavily dependent on GO Transit to get around because Queen Street is not within walking distance of the waterfront. Building new GO stations at Spadina and Liberty Village is encouraging but this is not going to help unless the Union Station capacity issue is solved and the Lakeshore and Kitchener lines can handle 30000/hour. If the Union Station GO tunnel is built then a Queen DRL + GO serves a larger area than a King DRL, but without a GO tunnel, a Queen DRL is going to leave GO overloaded and a Queen DRL is too far away for people living south of King Street to walk to.
 
andrewpmk said:
The only way a Queen alignment can possibly work is if a Union Station GO train tunnel goes ahead at the same time. Putting the DRL on Queen is going to leave waterfront residents heavily dependent on GO Transit to get around because Queen Street is not within walking distance of the waterfront. Building new GO stations at Spadina and Liberty Village is encouraging but this is not going to help unless the Union Station capacity issue is solved and the Lakeshore and Kitchener lines can handle 30000/hour. If the Union Station GO tunnel is built then a Queen DRL + GO serves a larger area than a King DRL, but without a GO tunnel, a Queen DRL is going to leave GO overloaded and a Queen DRL is too far away for people living south of King Street to walk to.
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I don't get all the hysterics about a Queen Street alignment at this point. We're only talking an additional 5 minute walk between King and Queen, so waterfront front residents aren't disadvantaged whatsoever, especially if they're taking a connecting north-south service from the subway southwards anyway.
 
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