Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

First off, get used to calling 45 Bay either 81 Bay or the Bay Park Centre, because that's the new address and the development name respectively. Yes, it will be PATH connected, but…

As best as I understand, this side track and platform would be the new drop-off for Union from inbound streetcars, who would then walk north in a tunnelled passageway to the existing link to Union subway station, freeing up the loop to quickly board passengers for the outbound trip.

No idea how the Bremner T would or could fit into this.

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Just noticed this sign at the track crossover - is it new?

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I really don't know about this option for the new platform. It's nearly a 600 foot walk, almost the same as the link from Spadina on the 1 line to the Spadina streetcar, 2-3 minutes walk. 6 times the distance of the "too far" transfer at Kennedy would have been. 2 million is cheap, but when people realize it's a third of the distance to Queen's Quay and will involve the streetcar going all the way up to Front, turning around, and going back after they get on, will it still seem like a bargain?

The Billy Bishop Airport tunnel is 550 feet/167 m long with 4 moving sidewalks. Yet the second class citizens have to do without, to go between the two Spadina stations. Would there be moving sidewalks with this proposed platform, but not at Spadina?
 
The Billy Bishop Airport tunnel is 550 feet/167 m long with 4 moving sidewalks. Yet the second class citizens have to do without, to go between the two Spadina stations. Would there be moving sidewalks with this proposed platform, but not at Spadina?
Moving sidewalk to where?
 
As best as I understand, this side track and platform would be the new drop-off for Union from inbound streetcars, who would then walk north in a tunnelled passageway to the existing link to Union subway station, freeing up the loop to quickly board passengers for the outbound trip.
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Well, that makes some sense. You'd only have to walk 3 minutes going to, not from Union. There would only be a level boarding platform getting off the streetcar, not getting on. I'm not sure how they would convince people to get off and walk rather than riding through to the loop.

Just to continue my Kennedy comparison, here's a crude sketch of what the same setup would look like as a transfer from the light rail to subway there.

Kennedy loop.png


Sorry, but this plan just seems fully half baked.
 

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In Ontario, signal lights seem to need to be duplicated. Yet I see only one set of pedestrian lights per crossing.
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If they actually followed the "letter" of the law, there should be two pedestrian signals on that post.

In Florida, it seems to be one set of traffic lights per traffic lane.
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In Ontario, they'll require to put up ten traffic lights, two per lane.

Now for some fun...
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In Ontario, signal lights seem to need to be duplicated. Yet I see only one set of pedestrian lights per crossing.

If they actually followed the "letter" of the law, there should be two pedestrian signals on that post.

To learn more on the subject, you should check out the Ontario Traffic Manual Book 12 - Traffic Signals (2012), which is publicly available from the MTO catalogue.

Here are the actual rules about duplication.

Highway Traffic Act regulation 626 subsection 1. (4):
"Every traffic control system that is installed shall have at least two traffic signals located on the far side of the intersection from which the vehicles are approaching, at least one of which shall be located on the far right side."

OTM Book 12 Section 2.3 under heading "HTA Regulation 626 subsection 1.(3)":
"Two separate signal heads shall be provided for any fully protected phase, such as a left turn operation facing type 2 signal heads, a bicycle phase, or a phase that represents the only opportunity for traffic to be served within a cycle."

HTA Regulation 626 subsection 1. (4.1) specifically exempts pedestrian signals from the requirement to have multiple heads per approach:

"Despite subsection (4), a traffic signal installed at a crosswalk at an intersection for the purpose of assisting pedestrian



In Ontario, they'll require to put up ten traffic lights, two per lane.

Based on the above, there would only be 2 signals required in the Florida example you showed, since none of the signals appear to be for a protected turning phase.

However, we could be required to have 10 traffic lights if there were 5 different protected phases, for example if we need:
- Transit signals
- Left turn signals
- Through signals
- Right turn signals
- Bicycle signals

In Florida, it seems to be one set of traffic lights per traffic lane.

This seems to be the case in The Netherlands too, and I find it to be a much more intuitive arrangement than the one set out in the OTM. I expect that if we prioritized the practice of having signals directly in line with the lane to which they apply, we'd have fewer instances of people making turns during red fully-protected turn signals, which has been the cause of nearly all the collisions on Queens Quay.

Instead, the OTM's approach is to place the primary (right-most) signal head on the right side of the road, then place the secondary (left-most) signal head at least 5 metres away from it.

Section 5.5 under heading "Lateral Signal Head Locations"
"The primary signal head must be located on the far right side of an intersection. At intersections with a signal head on a median island, the primary signal head should be located laterally at least at the edge of the pavement (0.5 m over the receiving lane is preferred). Where median islands do not exist, the primary heads should be located at the 1/2 to 3/4 point of the receiving curb lane, and a minimum of 1.2 m into the lane. The signal head should be aimed so that it is centred on the approach."

"The secondary signal head must be located on the left of the approaching through lanes. The head may be placed on a median, or, where there is no median, on the far left side of the intersection at least as far left as the left edge of the pavement."

"The secondary head (far left side) should be located at or as close to the edge of the roadway as practical. Under normal conditions, there should be a minimum of 5.0 m separation between the primary and secondary head, and a maximum desirable lateral distance of 15.0 m between the primary and secondary head."


A lane is typically about 3.0-3.5 m wide, so this 5.0 m recommendation comes into conflict with the practice of placing signals over the lanes they apply to.

Admittedly the situation on Queens Quay is even worse than it should be given that the left turn signal placement doesn't follow the recommended signal head placement in section 5.12 for "Approach without Median Island (Fully Protected Left Turns)", which includes:

"This application uses an aerial installation of the left-turn heads because of the requirements for placing the primary left-turn head within the projected left-turn lane."

and

"Note: minimum separation of primary and secondary heads may be impacted by actual lane widths"


Which means that the first priority is to place the primary signal heads in line with the lane(s) to which they apply, and only then do you worry about meeting the minimum 5 m separation, if possible.

The left turn signals on Queens Quay aren't even over the roadway to which they apply, let alone in line with the left turn lane:

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The left turn signals on Queens Quay aren't even over the roadway to which they apply, let alone in line with the left turn lane:

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You can stand here for a few light cycles and watch car after car turn left on a red left turn signal, then run into bikes and pedestrians crossing on their green. That left turn signal looks like it belongs to streetcars.
 
.. saw a SUV that was driving on the MGT just a few minutes ago. It likely took the left off of Spadina and thought the trail was a really tiny lane. A few cyclists shepherded it back onto the road.
 
Other collisions might occur with drivers turning onto the ROW instead of into the correct traffic lane, where a driver is initially travelling on a street that ends in a T-junction with QQW (such as Spadina). In that situation, since no-entry signs don't appear to be enough, I would support bollards that obstruct enough of the gap in the ROW to indicate that it is not open to drivers.

It's been five pages since the last bollard talk here, but I was surprised to see this on Edward Street last night:

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retractable bollards at the end of a lane that goes up to an apartment building on Elm. Not sure if anyone uses the lane on a regular basis, like a waste management truck maybe, or if those only get dropped for emergency services, but for whatever purpose, I was pleasantly surprised to see them: now that lane looks more European!

So yes, you can put retractable hydraulic bollards in the ground here too it would seem, not just in European city centres, so maybe we could see them pop up, so to speak, on QQ.

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It's been five pages since the last bollard talk here, but I was surprised to see this on Edward Street last night:

So yes, you can put retractable hydraulic bollards in the ground here too it would seem, not just in European city centres, so maybe we could see them pop up, so to speak, on QQ.

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I have seen retractable bollards in other places and they seem to work well but I am not convinced they will work in a city where we often have snow and ice. I assume these are new; before we start agitating for bollards in other (busier) spots I suggest we see how these survive a standard - or worse - winter.
 
I have seen retractable bollards in other places and they seem to work well but I am not convinced they will work in a city where we often have snow and ice. I assume these are new; before we start agitating for bollards in other (busier) spots I suggest we see how these survive a standard - or worse - winter.

Seems like the companies that make them already have your concerns covered:


•Ornamental trim packages.
•Warning lights for increased visibility.
•Redundant hydraulics to allow bollards to continue to operate in the event the primary units are damaged.
Heat trace system to keep the bollards functioning properly in snow and ice conditions.
•Sump pump to drain water from foundation pit and mechanical parts where water cannot be shed by gravity.
Hydraulic heaters and coolers for operation in temperatures below –22 ̊ F (–30 ̊ C) or above 150 ̊ F (66 ̊ C).
•AC Power unit.
•Non-skid coating on top plate

http://www.perimsys.com/pdfs/bollards/xt-1200.pdf
 

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