Roads: Gardiner Expressway

[TheTigerMaster]

The vote is so close now. 17 - 19 in favour of maintain

http://fordfortoronto.mattelliott.c...Projection - version1 Gardiner Projection.pdf

If you were planning to call your councillor, now would be a really good time to do it. Only 9 undecided remain.

 

[arcum]

The Gardiner itself - no, it's not minor; the Gardiner East? You bet - there is a reason why the opponents of removal resorted to using the Western Gardiner to masquerade as the eastern portion in their pro-hybrid stance.

The profile image for the GardinerHybrid twitter account - care to inform where it was taken?
AoD

100,000+ AADT is not a "minor" at all. It's laughable that the "Remove" proponents are trying to push this notion.

That image would be similar to what drivers would encounter if the Gardiner is removed due to traffic having to stop at the first of 5+ traffic signals on the future boulevard.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

100,000+ AADT is not a "minor" at all. It's laughable that the "Remove" proponents are trying to push this notion.

That image would be similar to what drivers would encounter if the Gardiner is removed due to traffic having to stop at the first of 5+ traffic signals on the future boulevard.

You mean, like this?

[video=youtube;ZWmpI5iE6bk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWmpI5iE6bk&feature=youtu.be[/video]
(CodeBlueTO)

AoD

 

[nfitz]

100,000+ AADT is not a "minor" at all. It's laughable that the "Remove" proponents are trying to push this notion.

What? The current DVP to Gardiner connection has no where near a 100,000 AADT.

Where did you get such a wrong piece of information?

The Burlington Skyway is only 120,000!

 

[arcum]

What? The current DVP to Gardiner connection has no where near a 100,000 AADT.

Where did you get such a wrong piece of information?

The Burlington Skyway is only 120,000!

Gardiner east is actually 110,000+ AADT. Gardiner to DVP is only 70,000 (the other 40,000 continue on Lakeshore). See PDF:
http://www.docdroid.net/12hj0/toronto-24hourvolumemap1.pdf.html

So yeah...tearing down the east Gardiner would be similar to removing the Burlington Bay Skyway!!! See what I did there?

To the other poster: Just because still images don't show any queuing doesn't mean the road is not used. BB Skyway carries large traffic and it only queues when there are accidents.

 

[dowlingm]

I think this debate is getting to the stage where Keesmaat jumps or is pushed. The disrespect some councillors have for staff advice is troublesome. It is especially interesting that Robinson wheeled out van Nostrand in preference to Keesmaat - when she (Robinson) was a city bureaucrat I doubt she would have enjoyed a similar experience.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I think this debate is getting to the stage where Keesmaat jumps or is pushed. The disrespect some councillors have for staff advice is troublesome. It is especially interesting that Robinson wheeled out van Nostrand in preference to Keesmaat - when she (Robinson) was a city bureaucrat I doubt she would have enjoyed a similar experience.

Well, to be frank though she need to have some thick skin to be in that position. As to van Nostrand, someone should read the old aA report from the early/mid 2000s to see just what he proposed - it was nothing like the current gift horse hybrid that's for sure. I have a copy of it - ask me if you are interested.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

Gardiner east is actually 110,000+ AADT. Gardiner to DVP is only 70,000 (the other 40,000 continue on Lakeshore).

Hang on - those aren't AADT numbers. They are average weekday numbers. AADT is the annual traffic divided by 365. That makes more sense.

And there's no point counting the other traffic, as the hybrid option is forcing that onto Lakeshore. So only 69,000. Compare to 164,000 on Gardiner West, A lot closer to the 53,000 on University Avenue or the 44,000 on Bloor Street.

And that assumes that this change doesn't push off any traffic cutting between Norh York and Etobicoke to the 401/427 - which would surely be a positive development.

 

[muller877]

Hang on - those aren't AADT numbers. They are average weekday numbers. AADT is the annual traffic divided by 365. That makes more sense.

And there's no point counting the other traffic, as the hybrid option is forcing that onto Lakeshore. So only 69,000. Compare to 164,000 on Gardiner West, A lot closer to the 53,000 on University Avenue or the 44,000 on Bloor Street.

And that assumes that this change doesn't push off any traffic cutting between Norh York and Etobicoke to the 401/427 - which would surely be a positive development.

As I understand it there are 70,000 that will be diverted from the Gardiner plus the 40,000 that use Lakeshore right now. So 110,000 is a reasonable number to compare to.

Keeping with the Skyway....I've been there when it was closed down. Eastgate, Red Hill/Linc and all of downtown was a mess. Eastgate only has 1 or 2 lights and no pedestrians so I can just imagine what Lakeshore will look like in the future.

 

[nfitz]

As I understand it there are 70,000 that will be diverted from the Gardiner plus the 40,000 that use Lakeshore right now. So 110,000 is a reasonable number to compare to.

It's not an AADT though ... the AADT would be lower. So not comparable to Skyway AADT numbers.

 

[salsa]

Keeping with the Skyway....I've been there when it was closed down. Eastgate, Red Hill/Linc and all of downtown was a mess. Eastgate only has 1 or 2 lights and no pedestrians so I can just imagine what Lakeshore will look like in the future.

What a ridiculous comparison. A closure of the skyway takes everyone by surprise and leaves them with no choice but to take an inadequate detour route several miles away. You talk as cars will have nowhere to go if the Gardiner is removed, ignoring that it will be replaced by a large boulevard that is sufficiently wide for the traffic volumes. Needless to say, your dystopic fantasies are not showing up in any of the staff reports.

 

[arcum]

It's not an AADT though ... the AADT would be lower. So not comparable to Skyway AADT numbers.

Toronto weekend traffic is very high. The difference between Average Weekday Traffic (AWDT) and AADT is only about 5% (Saturdays are almost as busy as week days, Sundays are less busy).

The numbers you should be comparing are the 110,000 and 50,000 which is the AWDT for University Ave (the glorious 6-8 lane Boulevard).

Could the new 8-lane boulevard carry 110,000 in addition to the existing Lake Shore boulevard (15,000)? I doubt it.

 

[arcum]

You talk as cars will have nowhere to go if the Gardiner is removed, ignoring that it will be replaced by a large boulevard that is sufficiently wide for the traffic volumes.

Isn't the existing Lake Shore Blvd already 6 lanes? How will adding just one more lane in each direction accommodate the 100,000+ vehicles from the east Gardiner?

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

No no, you see it's only the AM westbound peak we should be worried about! Not those summer Saturday afternoons when there's a Jays game and a concert at the ACC and the Gardiner is closed or Lakeshore is closed or it's nice weather and harbourfront is busy or it's raining ... /sarcasm

 

[nfitz]

Could the new 8-lane boulevard carry 110,000 in addition to the existing Lake Shore boulevard (15,000)? I doubt it.

Would there still be 110,000 trying to drive this way? I doubt it.

And shouldn't we be looking at peak hour? Even the AWDT is going to seem high, because there is always traffic - but seldom any traffic jams.