Which of the four regions in the GTA do you think has closer ties to Toronto itself?

[wild goose chase]

Inspired by discussion of this map putting Mississauga and Brampton in a category together with Toronto, to the exclusion of the rest of the GTA in the Regions of Ontario thread.

Which of the four do you think is closer to the city itself? Mississauga has the airport of course and it and Brampton are the largest "suburbs" of Toronto, but a case could also be made for the York region municipalities that hold what are also considered our northern suburbs (Vaughan, Markham etc.); York region also is getting the subway extension that will link it to the city directly, plus the region has Yonge street passing through itself after all. When it comes to the remaining two regions -- Durham and Halton, the former does have a border with the city in Scarborough, though separated a bit by Rouge Park, and the latter region does not border the city at all, and though still tied to it in a suburban sense by way of Peel, also veers towards Guelph, Kitchener-Waterloo and Hamilton.

 

[WislaHD]

York is a big region but I definitely feel like Vaughan/Markham/Richmond Hill are just a natural extension of Toronto. Thornhill may as well be another Toronto neighbourhood. This will feel even more so once the subway is extended up there.

Parts of Mississauga do as well, the airport area, as well as Lakeview & Port Credit.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I've commented in the past that compared to anywhere else in Ontario, the city of Hamilton feels most like Toronto. Likely because its essentially the only other city in Ontario to reject the dreadful suburban grid. I feel more at home in Hamilton that anywhere else in GTA or Ontario.

As for which GTA municipality is most closely "linked" to Toronto, it's either Peel or York.

Durham: Definitely the most separated from Toronto. The only major road connecting us to Durham is 401. It's also significantly further away from Toronto city centre than Mississauga is. From Yonge, going to Durham via 401 is roughly equivalent to travelling all the way through 401.

Peel: it has the airport, but few people actually recognize the Airport as being in Mississauga. Other than that, I can't think of any major destinations in Peel. The region does feel alien in comparison with Toronto, especially with Mississauga's horrendous urban design. Unlike Durham, Peel Region has several major road links with Toronto, which contributes to it feeling better linked than Durham.

York: I mean, it has Wonderland. It also has an abundance of physical road links. It has the subway, but not very many people will use that. The urban design there is nearly a dreadful as Mississauga.

Halton: How many people in Toronto even know what or where "Halton" is?

It's a tossup between Peel and York. I vote Peel just because I tend to go there more often.

 

[wild goose chase]

Peel: it has the airport, but few people actually recognize the Airport as being in Mississauga. Other than that, I can't think of any major destinations in Peel.

York: I mean, it has Wonderland. It also has an abundance of physical road links.

That's what struck me as odd when that tourism map I saw placed Mississauga, Brampton and Toronto together, but not York region (which has Wonderland) or much of the rest of the GTA.

There's probably data out there somewhere but I do wonder if excluding Toronto, of the parts of the GTA, Peel really gets more tourists than York region does, as a destination onto itself (not just the point of leaving and arriving at the airport). I'd be surprised if it is, considering Wonderland's popularity.

 

[wild goose chase]

Another thing that I vaguely perceive but have no idea if any data or stats back this up is that Toronto's northern suburbs in York region (Vaughan, Richmond Hill, Markham) seem more settled by people moving to them from adjacent parts of Toronto's 416, while Mississauga and Brampton seem to be settled proportionally more by people who never lived in the old city or even Metro Toronto to begin with and whose first residence in the GTA might have already been the 905.

The connection between suburban-looking Mississauga/Brampton to Etobicoke to North York/York and into the old city doesn't seem as strong as the suburban-looking Thornhill/Vaughan/Markham to North York/York/East York and into the old city one for instance.

It could be that as Mississauga/Brampton are larger populations (especially Mississauga) and by being more of a city in their own right, there might be less of a need to rely on going to Toronto for amenities. The less populous suburbs might thus be more extensions of Metro Toronto since they've not created as much of their own city centre (though they're getting there). For example, compare downtown Mississauga to downtown Markham.

 

[wild goose chase]

Employment and commuting could also be a measure. Do more people in Peel or York work downtown or in the old city?

 

[Johnny Au]

York Region not only has Wonderland, but two major malls popular with non-locals: Vaughan Mills (largest shopping mall in York Region) and Pacific Mall (among the largest ethnic shopping malls in Canada and is among the few malls open during statutory holidays).

 

[WislaHD]

Another thing that I vaguely perceive but have no idea if any data or stats back this up is that Toronto's northern suburbs in York region (Vaughan, Richmond Hill, Markham) seem more settled by people moving to them from adjacent parts of Toronto's 416, while Mississauga and Brampton seem to be settled proportionally more by people who never lived in the old city or even Metro Toronto to begin with and whose first residence in the GTA might have already been the 905.

The connection between suburban-looking Mississauga/Brampton to Etobicoke to North York/York and into the old city doesn't seem as strong as the suburban-looking Thornhill/Vaughan/Markham to North York/York/East York and into the old city one for instance.

It could be that as Mississauga/Brampton are larger populations (especially Mississauga) and by being more of a city in their own right, there might be less of a need to rely on going to Toronto for amenities. The less populous suburbs might thus be more extensions of Metro Toronto since they've not created as much of their own city centre (though they're getting there). For example, compare downtown Mississauga to downtown Markham.

Anecdotally I have definitely seen this to be the case.

I think it is because Mississauga has a lot of apartment blocks built at around the same time as the ones in Metro Toronto - which then became a place first time residents would move to.

 

[King of Kensington]

If Toronto annexed Pearson Airport, the answer would be obvious.

 

[King of Kensington]

Another thing that I vaguely perceive but have no idea if any data or stats back this up is that Toronto's northern suburbs in York region (Vaughan, Richmond Hill, Markham) seem more settled by people moving to them from adjacent parts of Toronto's 416, while Mississauga and Brampton seem to be settled proportionally more by people who never lived in the old city or even Metro Toronto to begin with and whose first residence in the GTA might have already been the 905.

Very good point. The Sikh community of Malton/Brampton is a good example of this. I'm pretty sure they started out in Malton and expanded into Brampton; I don't think they were ever a major presence in the 416.

The flow of communities seems more evident from Toronto to York Region. There's the Italian community running in a northwestern direction along Dufferin and Keele and over to Weston Rd., into Woodbridge. The Jewish community north along Bathurst. And in the eastern suburbs you have the Chinese and Tamil communities running from Scarborough to Markham.

 

[WislaHD]

The flow of communities seems more evident from Toronto to York Region. There's the Italian community running in a northwestern direction along Dufferin and Keele and over to Weston Rd., into Woodbridge. The Jewish community north along Bathurst. And in the eastern suburbs you have the Chinese and Tamil communities running from Scarborough to Markham.

Portuguese, Russian and Korean communites followed likewise into York Region.

I can only really think of the Polish (and Ukrainian) community as an example of flowing from Toronto to Mississauga.

 

[wild goose chase]

If Toronto annexed Pearson Airport, the answer would be obvious.

I wonder if that has been proposed by the city before (especially since amalgamation brought the city's borders immediately adjacent to it, after all)?
I have noticed that cities often like annexing airports, as Chicago did to O'Hare, or commercial lands that are useful for generating revenue. Stateside, it's common to see "shoestring annexation" where farther but desirable areas are connected to the city annexing them through thin strips of land. However, that doesn't really seem to have been commonly done or proposed to be done in Toronto's history (don't know about other Canadian cities).

I wonder how much Mississauga versus Toronto's relative advantage or wealth would really change if Pearson belonged to Toronto.

 

[Johnny Au]

It helps that Pearson Airport is considered part of the TTC fare zone.

 

[wild goose chase]

York Region not only has Wonderland, but two major malls popular with non-locals: Vaughan Mills (largest shopping mall in York Region) and Pacific Mall (among the largest ethnic shopping malls in Canada and is among the few malls open during statutory holidays).

But Peel has Square One, the biggest mall in the GTA.

 

[King of Kensington]

But Peel has Square One, the biggest mall in the GTA.

Never been.