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Which bus routes need articulated buses?

29 Dufferin could use them.

Until a POP system is used for them, loading time will be an issue.

MT and OC don't have great success using artic's on snowy or icy days on hills, let alone major roads.

Double Deck only can run on certain roads at MTO approval. It will be a hug learning curve for riders as they will not be able to sit in their seat on the top level and get off when the bus stops. They have better traction than Artic's and seat 27 more riders. They come or did with a 20 year warranty compare to 12 yrs by NFI if they make it to time frame for NFI.

They carry 30% more riders and therefore there is a labour saving by having less buses on the road.

Pusher are not as great as pullers.

I'm sure GO can get an exemption for buying them since there is no company in NA that makes a DD in the first place. The US does this.

Ask MT about artic's since they have had the first model made in NA and use them various models since then. Not a great track record to date.
 
Artics will make the loading time and delays worse, if the frequency is decreased to make up for the extra capacity. But the unloading time is much better than other buses because of the extra door.

If artics have loading/unloading time issues, then double deckers can only be far worse, since they lack that extra door.
 
Before we put articulated buses on our routes, we have to do something about the bad habit of people exiting through the front doors. I can understand the elderly or handicapped, but everyone else? I always used the rear doors, even when my kids were in strollers.
 
drum118 said:
29 Dufferin could use them.

Until a POP system is used for them, loading time will be an issue.
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That's true, and hopefully it will be enforced better than POP on the 501.
drum118 said:
MT and OC don't have great success using artic's on snowy or icy days on hills, let alone major roads.

Double Deck only can run on certain roads at MTO approval. It will be a hug learning curve for riders as they will not be able to sit in their seat on the top level and get off when the bus stops.
Click to expand...
At least with GO they don't seem to take the no standing on the upper deck rule as strictly as Las Vegas did. Most people I've seen while taking the GO double deckers do give themselves enough time to get off the bus at their stop. Some just sit on the lower deck if they are going short distances.
drum118 said:
I'm sure GO can get an exemption for buying them since there is no company in NA that makes a DD in the first place. The US does this.
Click to expand...
In 2008, Alexander Dennis reached an assembly agreement with ElDorado National of the US, so that the Enviro500 double deck model meets Buy America.

W. K. Lis said:
Before we put articulated buses on our routes, we have to do something about the bad habit of people exiting through the front doors. I can understand the elderly or handicapped, but everyone else? I always used the rear doors, even when my kids were in strollers.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately people tend to exit the same door they entered. I believe there have been studies on this relating to evacuation of buildings.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Before we put articulated buses on our routes, we have to do something about the bad habit of people exiting through the front doors. I can understand the elderly or handicapped, but everyone else?
Click to expand...
The drivers are inconsistent in their requests. Frequently your standing at the back door and the driver asks passengers to exit at the front door, because of snow banks, parked cars, etc. At other times the driver asks you to exit the front door when he is behind schedule, as the back doors take forever to open and close; and he can see the front door, so can he can depart much more quickly when the passenger uses the front.

Personally, I think everyone should use the front door, unless it's clear there are a few or more people loading, given how slowly the back doors take to open and close; this would speed up stops. I routinely use the front door if I can see the stop we are arriving at is almost empty ... and I'm yet to get a driver complain; unlike when I try and exit the back door.
 
drum118 said:
MT and OC don't have great success using artic's on snowy or icy days on hills, let alone major roads.
Click to expand...

Hamilton just started running artics on their A-Line Express route which features a trip up and down the escarpment on a windy two lane road. It will interesting to see what happens on the first below freezing day with precipitation.
 
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W. K. Lis said:
Before we put articulated buses on our routes, we have to do something about the bad habit of people exiting through the front doors. I can understand the elderly or handicapped, but everyone else? I always used the rear doors, even when my kids were in strollers.
Click to expand...

I can also understand those who are crowded near the front door by default, i.e. if they're getting off at the next stop and it's an annoyance to bud through to the rear door, then naturally, the front's the way to go...
 
Jonny5 said:
Hamilton just started running artics on their A-Line Express route which features a trip up and down the escarpment on a windy two lane road. It will interesting to see what happens on the first below freezing day with precipitation.
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:D Ha ha; one of the top priorities in Hamilton each winter has always been to salt the Jolley Cut and the other Mountain accesses, especially the Sherman Cut which is configured in an unfortunate way that seems to concentrate the precipitation on the road with cliff faces on both sides. If they didn't pay close attention to traction on these accesses, you would have an amazing pile of cars, buses, etc. at the bottom of them after storms.

Articulated buses seem to work somehow, in both Mississauga and Hamilton, two places which I am familiar with, although I'm not enough of a transit geek to know what the technical problems are that they may or may not have overcome. Miss. doesn't have many large hills, although there is a relatively steep slope on Dundas Street at the Credit River, and they run the artics on Dundas.
 
Artic buses worked out well for MT and YRT (with Viva Blue gaining tremendous ridership). Unfortunately MT has been losing ridership, especially in 5 and 26 (it is now recovering slowly though). I wonder how disastrous it will affect on TTC due to narrow streets, peddie-friendly crossings and tight bus terminals.
 
why would it be disasterous? The TTC had them before on a few routes and except for the rusting problem they were useful on busy routes.
 
The 196 could use artics. Since there are so few stops, the slow loading time shouldn't be too much of a problem. Since the frequency is already pretty high, reducing it slightly shouldn't impact ridership. Not to mention that Downsview and Sheppard-Yonge have fare paid zones allowing all door loading.

As for the discussion of turning circle, it depends largely on the model of bus. Viva's Van Hool AG330s are European-designed buses with short wheelbases, rear-wheel steering and a mid-engine middle-wheel-drive layout which gives them a very tight turning circle well suited for winding European streets.

North American-designed buses such as Missisauga's New Flyer D60ALFs don't have rear wheel steering or short wheelbases, which causes them to have larger turning circles. I assume that due to their rear-engine rear wheel drive layout, having rear wheel steering would be difficult.
 
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As I mentioned before, articulated buses can make tighter turns 40 foot buses, so that is nto a problem. The real issue is with the sizes of the bus pads and the bus bays, and other problems that others have mentioned such as snow and maintenence and loading times.
 
doady said:
As I mentioned before, articulated buses can make tighter turns 40 foot buses, so that is nto a problem. The real issue is with the sizes of the bus pads and the bus bays, and other problems that others have mentioned such as snow and maintenence and loading times.
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I am aware that you have said this before, but I fail to see how articulated buses can have smaller turning circles than 40 foot buses, since they have the same wheelbase, but also have a trailer that will cut the corners (unless there's rear wheel steering), requiring drivers to take wider turns.
 
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