We need to integrate Durham more into the GTA!

[denfromoakvillemilton]

A northern GTA perspective:

I'm guessing that part of the reason for this might be that there doesn't seem to be many jobs in Durham outside of the auto sector. My wife commuted to Oshawa from Markham for a while, but I know far, far more people who commute from Durham to York (and Toronto, obviously).

Most of western Durham seems to just be houses, and unless I'm visiting a friend I don't really ever have a need to go out there, whereas I know a lot of people from Durham who come to Markham for Pacific Mall (and even Markville), Unionville, the restaurants, etc. I'm not saying there's nothing worthwhile in Durham, but there aren't as many "big draws."

I think when Seaton is built in north Pickering, Durham Region will become a bit more connected to York Region, since hopefully the buses will connect along Highway 7 (at the yet-to-be-built Cornell Terminal maybe?). There will always be a gap between Durham and York because of the greenbelt, which is a good thing, but I think it will feel more connected. Ironically, the 407 extension will probably do a lot to make things more connected. Also, if the Pickering Airport ever gets built, I would expect major development to follow in the area and the entire region to shift eastward somewhat.

Interesting thread topic... agreed with canarob that Seaton, 407, and Pickering Airport will help shift the balance a bit toward the eastern part of the GTA. The western edge has several major highways and the airport which really help to drive employment. Some major planning stuff going on in Durham right now (disputes between Region and Province)
http://www.durhamregion.com/news/ar...man-calls-province-s-seaton-policy-deplorable

The airport is key. It will also provide more jobs as well.

 

[Action Jackson]

The airport is key. It will also provide more jobs as well.

That is assuming that the opposition to it won't bury it a second time - and that is a very real possibility. The Durham Regional Council is split on it, the locals hate the idea and it has been shut down once before, and that is before one points out that the last time a huge airport was built to relive congestion at another was Mirabel, which was proven to be nothing short of a massive white elephant. It also adds to the problem of transit there, as the only highway up there is the 407. Does anybody want to give the jackasses who run it any more leverage on the city? I hope not.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

That is assuming that the opposition to it won't bury it a second time - and that is a very real possibility. The Durham Regional Council is split on it, the locals hate the idea and it has been shut down once before, and that is before one points out that the last time a huge airport was built to relive congestion at another was Mirabel, which was proven to be nothing short of a massive white elephant. It also adds to the problem of transit there, as the only highway up there is the 407. Does anybody want to give the jackasses who run it any more leverage on the city? I hope not.

Me neither, man that was a mistake by harris.

 

[canarob]

That is assuming that the opposition to it won't bury it a second time - and that is a very real possibility. The Durham Regional Council is split on it, the locals hate the idea and it has been shut down once before, and that is before one points out that the last time a huge airport was built to relive congestion at another was Mirabel, which was proven to be nothing short of a massive white elephant. It also adds to the problem of transit there, as the only highway up there is the 407. Does anybody want to give the jackasses who run it any more leverage on the city? I hope not.

As far as I understand, there would be highway-like roads that would link it to the 401.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I, for one, in spite of still living here (Pickering), would prefer if the five southern municipalities of Durham sank into Lake Ontario to never be heard of again. Suburban wasteland anyone? What a terrible place this is and if it weren't for my rather cushy job being based here, I'd have left years ago (shit, I did leave only to return for work).

But yeah, I guess if it were possible to turn this joke of a suburban conglomeration into anything worth integrating, then I'm all for it. I'm not holding my breath though. Handy tip: you can start by getting rid of Roger Anderson....that alone might get you halfway there.

 

[FAC33]

I, for one, in spite of still living here (Pickering), would prefer if the five southern municipalities of Durham sank into Lake Ontario to never be heard of again. Suburban wasteland anyone? What a terrible place this is and if it weren't for my rather cushy job being based here, I'd have left years ago (shit, I did leave only to return for work).

I guess it depends on your definition of "terrible." Southern Durham is never going to be a hip place to live. It's a suburb. It's full of people like me who want a decent-sized house for under $500K. A lot of us commute elsewhere (and not necessarily by car). We don't really have much culture, apart from some small arts organizations, malls, and the Oshawa Generals. However, we can get to Toronto quickly when need be. You could do far worse, even amongst other GTA suburbs.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I, for one, in spite of still living here (Pickering), would prefer if the five southern municipalities of Durham sank into Lake Ontario to never be heard of again. Suburban wasteland anyone? What a terrible place this is and if it weren't for my rather cushy job being based here, I'd have left years ago (shit, I did leave only to return for work).

But yeah, I guess if it were possible to turn this joke of a suburban conglomeration into anything worth integrating, then I'm all for it. I'm not holding my breath though. Handy tip: you can start by getting rid of Roger Anderson....that alone might get you halfway there.

He's the one who wants to build more houses in Oshawa right?

 

[canarob]

I guess it depends on your definition of "terrible." Southern Durham is never going to be a hip place to live. It's a suburb. It's full of people like me who want a decent-sized house for under $500K. A lot of us commute elsewhere (and not necessarily by car). We don't really have much culture, apart from some small arts organizations, malls, and the Oshawa Generals. However, we can get to Toronto quickly when need be. You could do far worse, even amongst other GTA suburbs.

I think that's a perfect description, although Oshawa certainly has its own culture. Once Durham starts to run out of greenfield land, it will start to look a lot more like the other 905 suburbs.

 

[Mongo]

I guess it depends on your definition of "terrible." Southern Durham is never going to be a hip place to live. It's a suburb. It's full of people like me who want a decent-sized house for under $500K. A lot of us commute elsewhere (and not necessarily by car). We don't really have much culture, apart from some small arts organizations, malls, and the Oshawa Generals. However, we can get to Toronto quickly when need be. You could do far worse, even amongst other GTA suburbs.

That's the reason I bought a house in Pickering -- I could get a good-sized house for a fraction of what it would cost in Toronto, and it is still a relatively short trip on the GO Lakeshore line (37 minutes) if I want to visit downtown Toronto. To me, the (quite considerable) extra cash available to me because of the much lower mortgage payments is worth putting up with the lack of a lot of actual things to do in the immediate neighborhood.

 

[SunriseChampion]

My definition of terrible is: suburbia. By this metric I'll also be admitting that I'd hate living in urbanised York Region as well....moreso even because of the lack of lakefront. I can't shit on Peel and Halton too much because Port Credit, Old Oakville, and central Burlington would all be alright to live in by my standards.

Durham lacks any sort of character. It's bland, boring as hell, poorly built out, lacks proper transit, has a damn ugly built form, has terrible retail, has a pretty sad crime rate, and reminds me of some sort of worker-zombie warehouse....which, I suppose, is exactly what it is.
And just to give you all a taste of what I'm talking about: Pickering's much-touted "Downtown West" development consists of *ahem* a Home Depot, Future Shop, Shoppers Drug Mart, and (soon) Michael's.....and, of course, a giant parking lot/waste of space/heat sink. No, I'm not joking....Durham in a nutshell. Forget integrating it...you're better off figuring out a way to somehow transport Peterborough over.

+++++
I don't even know what Roger Anderson is scheming about anymore, but building a bunch of new subdivisions in Oshawa seems right up his alley.
Roger Anderson is up in arms about the fact that he'll be up for election by the public for the first time ever. Roger Anderson pays lip service to the ideals I hold dear and which Durham is seriously lacking. Roger Anderson is in the pocket of one too many developers. Roger Anderson is an arrogant arse. Roger Anderson represents everything that is wrong with Durham.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

You care MTown and that's whats up. I think Bomanville is what roger wants to destroy next. Let's be serious here. That town already has nearly, 90,000 people. Lots of Toronto commuters.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Well, yes, I do care because as things are is a bloody joke. I don't blame our friends over here for buying houses here for the reasons they did, but there's something seriously messed up with previous generations if our cities look like this joke that is Durham and people are forced to SETTLE for it.


Sorry if I'm going off a bit but how suburbia ever became acceptable to human beings with hearts and souls and rational minds is so beyond me I feel like I'm learning about mathematical proofs again in grade 12 advanced geometry class.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Halton had to have Place to grow happen before it changed. Maybe the Go extension will help, or make things worse. I don't know.

 

[SunriseChampion]

The GO extension will neither help nor make things worse. What would help: booting out the old generation of politicians, for starters. I don't mean to sound age-ist or anything but baby boomers are one messed up bunch as a collective (which you shouldn't label them as lest they think you're calling them all commies). Unfortunately, our generation is lazy as all hell but at least we have better ideas on how the world should work and knowledge of how it actually does. The suburbs are vastly populated by cold individualistic people who are too busy getting into debt and keeping up with the Joneses to pull their heads out of the sand and see what it is they've done to themselves.
Anyway, I'm moving to Toronto in September-ish, thankyouverymuch!

You can tell this place is getting to my head when I start making sweeping generalisations eh? hahaaaaa.....God help me. I even went on an anti-Durham rant last night in my therapy session. It's ok, I made my therapist laugh and I did have some very valid points, even she had to concede that. This soul-less hole of a place. *spits*

 

[Hipster Duck]

Durham is sort of the odd man out of the 905. If you discount Hamilton, it's the only part of the 905 that has a large, pre-war industrial working class city at its core. It is also a very linear region, and moving people around has always been less of a concern because every city was on the 401, the all-day Lakeshore east line and the decent Hwy 2 bus service. The intra-city public transit systems in Durham are deplorable, though, and I wouldn't be surprised if Durham has the highest automobile mode share of any of the 905 regions.

Finally, Durham always struck me as both whiter and more working class than the other 905 regions which are ethnically diverse and geared to the white collar/professional classes. Demographically and developmentally, Durham always reminded me of some Northeastern American suburban area, like Jersey.