TTC: Electric and alternative fuel buses

[CodeMonkey]

The new trolleybuses can run on batteries, flywheels, or Primove. The old trolleybuses needed a garage (Lansdowne & Eglinton) to be right beside a trolleybus line. The new trolleybuses don't, so existing or new garages don't have to be. Just need an electrical supply to recharge them.

The TTC isn't going to spend the money on an entirely new system that either relies on running in the downtown using the existing overhead streetcar power or an underground system that is still relatively new. With TTC still pushing out what remains of TransitCity, the financial black hole that is commonly refer to as the Scarborough Subway Extension, and John Tory Smart Track pet project. I doubt you'll see any funding or interest in bringing back trolleybuses anytime soon.

 

[jozl]

I've mentioned the loss of the trolly buses on Bay Street at a number of public meetings held by the TTC. The last time was when Adam Giambrone was TTC Chair. I was told at the time that the trolly buses were breaking down often and were no longer in production by GM so parts were difficult to come by. It was also pointed out that streetcars carry considerably more passengers than the trolly buses. Unfortunately the Bay Street trollies were replaced by diesel buses. A poor choice. Unlike streetcars trolly buses can steer around obstacles. They have rubber wheels which also makes them more quiet than streetcars and less taxing on the road surface. They don't spew diesel fumes like buses do. Most importantly, they don't need VERY EXPENSIVE track maintenance. The road is maintained by the city's operating budget for roads, not the TTC's budget.
All in all it was a lost opportunity.

 

[the lemur]

I've mentioned the loss of the trolly buses on Bay Street at a number of public meetings held by the TTC. The last time was when Adam Giambrone was TTC Chair. I was told at the time that the trolly buses were breaking down often and were no longer in production by GM so parts were difficult to come by. It was also pointed out that streetcars carry considerably more passengers than the trolly buses. Unfortunately the Bay Street trollies were replaced by diesel buses. A poor choice. Unlike streetcars trolly buses can steer around obstacles. They have rubber wheels which also makes them more quiet than streetcars and less taxing on the road surface. They don't spew diesel fumes like buses do. Most importantly, they don't need VERY EXPENSIVE track maintenance. The road is maintained by the city's operating budget for roads, not the TTC's budget.
All in all it was a lost opportunity.

Does Bay still have the overhead wires that would enable the current 6 bus to become a trolley route? How does a trolleybus steer around something if it needs to stay aligned with the wires to run?

 

[W. K. Lis]

New trolleybuses can run on batteries, flywheels, or Primove to move around obstructions. However, it would be an optional extra. However, before we got rid of our trolleybuses, I've seen the trolleybuses shifting their trollyes to the other wires going in the opposite direction to get around traffic collisions on their side of the road.

 

[Napoleon]

Living in San Francisco, trolley buses were a necessity with the hills. It was quite rare that they ever had their poles come off the wires. Even then, it was an easy fix. That being said, at least the ones SF has are rather loud. So, I was never a huge fan of them.

 

[mpd618]

How does a trolleybus steer around something if it needs to stay aligned with the wires to run?

A trolleybus does need to be directly aligned with the wires - the trolley poles have a reasonable range on either side of the bus so it can pull over to a stop or get around an obstacle.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I've even seen the streetcar trolley poles shifted to the opposite direction wire to get around a short wire break. Very rare, but I did see it done. Not possible with pantographs.

 

[mdrejhon]

I've even seen the streetcar trolley poles shifted to the opposite direction wire to get around a short wire break. Very rare, but I did see it done. Not possible with pantographs.

Didn't know TTC streetcar trolley poles had enough range to do that! As long as there's no incoming streetcars...

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

In 1987 the TTC was so close to putting out a tender for 100 new trolley buses, like "this" close (holding thumb and index finger one millimetre apart), but the GM, Al Leach, squashed the tender because CNG buses were the new technology that was going to solve all the transit problems. So he killed the trolley bus order and we got CNG buses instead. We know how that experiment turned out.

This was the same Al Leach who said that "everything was fine when I left" at the TTC when the subway crash happened in 1995, though he was GM until right before it happened, and who, as a minister in the Harris government said that "The TTC is running a Cadillac service" when questioned about cuts to transit subsidies.

 

[ShonTron]

In the 1980s, the Hamilton Street Railway began to sabotage its own trolley bus system, of which just three routes - 1 King, 2 Barton and 3 Cannon - carried half of the HSR's 30 million annual riders. Its newest trolley buses were purchased in 1978 (the Flyer E800s) and until the early 1980s, maintenance of vehicles and overhead was top notch.

But a new manager came in with an anti-trolley bus agenda. The HSR built a new lower city garage (Wentworth) that didn't include overhead connections to the trolley wire network; this made all but the newest trolley buses (which were equipped with diesel auxiliary units) unusable. The Ontario Government was pushing CNG technology. At the time, it owned Orion Bus, and only Neoplan in the US and Flyer/New Flyer in Winnipeg were building trolley buses. So Orion CNG buses, pushed by the province, were the answer in both Toronto and Hamilton (that, and ICTS technology - there was a plan for a Hamilton RT system using the same technology as the Scarborough RT). Now, of course, Orion doesn't exist anymore.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080429234500/http://www.pccmph.com/dewired.html

 

[nfitz]

Out here in Vancouver at the moment, and was driving behind a trolley bus, which uses 2 wires.

Hang on I thought. I only remember the TTC buses using a single pole. Have I just forgotten? (they were gone before I moved to Toronto a decade ago; and I didn't use them when I lived in North York briefly 25 years ago ... I do recall being on one that the pole came off the wire in the 1970s ... on Bay I think going through Queen... but perhaps I'm confused by that after so many years.

I can't see how it could be one wire of course ... with no return rail - I assume I've forgotten something.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

They used two poles.

 

[nfitz]

So presumably one was shared with the streetcars, and there was a second return wire. So two separate poles then?

Here's a shot I just got where they are putting them back on after moving through a construction zone here in Vancouver. Not sure if the vehicles are hybrid or have batteries; I didn't realize they could do that here.

 

[the lemur]

So presumably one was shared with the streetcars, and there was a second return wire. So two separate poles then?

Here's a shot I just got where they are putting them back on after moving through a construction zone here in Vancouver. Not sure if the vehicles are hybrid or have batteries; I didn't realize they could do that here.

That looks like the New Flyer E40LFR (electric, 40-ft, low-floor, restyled). It's powered by an electric motor, therefore not a hybrid, although it has batteries for emergency power.

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

That looks like the New Flyer E40LFR (electric, 40-ft, low-floor, restyled). It's powered by an electric motor, therefore not a hybrid, although it has batteries for emergency power.

Just to stir things up, New Flyer has changed the designation for the Xcelsior trolley coaches for Seattle and San Francisco. They are XT40 or XT60 models, being Xcelsior Trolley 40 or 60 ft. XE is for the battery powered model.

The SF articulated model looks pretty sharp:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/munidave/17650100909/