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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Sakraycore said:
Disappointing to see the triple R, but for a project at the 5% phase, not sure if it's actually possible for it to be all green.
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The report just says that nothing has changed since the last update. Back in March the project was listed as "at risk" because the EA and TPAP are lagging behind schedule and might not be done by the end of this year, and if that falls behind then the rest of the project does too.

Remember that city council intentionally slowed down the process of building transit projects because of TYSSE's cost overruns and delays. Now they have this "project stages" system where projects get brought back to city council for debate several times, with a vote required to advance a project to the next stage. I believe that the SSE still has to come back two more times before construction can start.
 
If either of the two last posters bothered to read the double asterisk next to the SSE label, they would have read that it is over-schedule, over-scope, and elevated risk for the known/approved scope.

Perhaps the two posters have ulterior motives for ignoring those inconvenient facts.
 
transitnoob said:
If either of the two last posters bothered to read the double asterisk next to the SSE label, they would have read that it is over-schedule, over-scope, and elevated risk for the known/approved scope.

Perhaps the two posters have ulterior motives for ignoring those inconvenient facts.
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Over scope? If anything it would be under scope from the original. As far as scope goes the ** is stating the table will be updated once the scope becomes more defined. Makes sense when we're only past 5% design.
 
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See this article: https://stevemunro.ca/2017/07/13/ttc-board-discovers-cost-of-bloor-danforth-subway-renovation/

- SSE isn't scheduled to open until 2026. The extension will only be equipped with ATO equipment, and not our legacy signalling system.

- Thus, for the SSE to open, Line 2 needs to have an ATO fleet in place by 2026

- We needed to begin the new fleet order for Line 2 "last week" if we are to have the ATO fleet in time for the SSE opening

- However, before we can even begin to take delivery of the new fleet, a new rail yard needs to be open at Kipling. Greenwood would be "downgraded" to train storage, and this new yard would take on 100% of the maintenance responsibilities of Line 2 (and presumably Relief Line too)

- None of this is in the TTC capital budget. The new fleet will cost $1.7 Billion, new Kipling yard will cost $509 Million

Can this be all be in place in the for the SSE'a scheduled 2026 opening? The odds are not looking good
 
So what? They will build SSE with legacy signalling system, and convert it to ATO later together with the rest of the line.

Or, they will defer it to 2028 or to 2030 if needed. What was the last major transit project in this city that was completed on time?
 
Rainforest said:
So what? They will build SSE with legacy signalling system, and convert it to ATO later together with the rest of the line.

Or, they will defer it to 2028 or to 2030 if needed. What was the last major transit project in this city that was completed on time?
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More likely the extension would be built with ATO already in place.
 
This will be discussed during design and surely they will go with the legacy system given the lack of urgency and unknown timeline to update the rest of the line.

Although its certainly good to know where we are with this upgrade
 
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OneCity said:
This will be discussed during design and surely they will go with the legacy system given the lack of urgency and unknown timeline to update the rest of the line.
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It's in the quoted article:

Automatic Train Control
Following completion of the ATC project on Line 1 YUS, the TTC will turn its attention to Line 2 BD. This work is planned over the coming decade:

  • 2015-18: Preliminary design
  • 2016-19: Design and procurement
  • 2018-24: Installation and testing
  • 2025-26: Decommissioning of legacy equipment
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AoD
 
I am bemused as to why the TTC management hasn't even begun to talk about the need for a new train fleet, if we're to have this new fleet (and all it's prerequisites) in place in only nine years.
 
Rainforest said:
So what? They will build SSE with legacy signalling system, and convert it to ATO later together with the rest of the line.

Or, they will defer it to 2028 or to 2030 if needed. What was the last major transit project in this city that was completed on time?
Click to expand...
nfitz said:
Given it's only 1 station, and not many switches, I doubt building the legacy system as well would be a big deal.
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Given the age of the existing equipment, which will be a decade older by the time SSE opens, I think there would be a lot of resistance in TTC to such an idea given that it would involve trying to acquire, never mind install, decades old systems and then maintain them in parallel, knowing that while they are functional City Council can kick T1 retirement - and the legacy signalling - further down the road. As a Line 2 rider, I can assure you that we can and do have signal failures in 2017.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I am bemused as to why the TTC management hasn't even begun to talk about the need for a new train fleet, if we're to have this new fleet (and all it's prerequisites) in place in only nine years.
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The need for a new fleet has been in the capital plans for years - TTC has not kept this a secret. The politicians who are pushing the SSE refused to acknowledge during the process that the cost of SSE was anything other than the tunneling and fitout costs for the extension.

It is difficult to talk to those who do not wish to hear.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I am bemused as to why the TTC management hasn't even begun to talk about the need for a new train fleet, if we're to have this new fleet (and all it's prerequisites) in place in only nine years.
Click to expand...
I'm bemused as to why you think TTC management hasn't begun to talk about it. It showed up as a below the line item in both the 2016 and 2017 budgets. This would have required talk.

dowlingm said:
Given the age of the existing equipment, which will be a decade older by the time SSE opens, I think there would be a lot of resistance in TTC to such an idea given that it would involve trying to acquire, never mind install, decades old systems and then maintain them in parallel, knowing that while they are functional City Council can kick T1 retirement - and the legacy signalling - further down the road. As a Line 2 rider, I can assure you that we can and do have signal failures in 2017.
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And you'll probably have more. Should be no shortage of equipment available, given what they are ripping out of Line 1, which probably has 20 times what they need. They can easily save the best of it for spare parts, etc.

Sure, if the new trains will be available by then, They can use the new system for the extension, and the legacy system at the same time then if they want to. But if the trains aren't ready, putting in a temporary system will be far cheaper and sensible than trying to retrofit the T1s.

Though I'm not unconvinced that adding the equipment to the T1s, as originally envisioned, and then running them out to 40-50 years isn't a bad idea.
 
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