TTC management: Competent or Mediocre

[TrickyRicky]

Having just done some traveling state-side I must say that coming back you can really appreciate how the TTC is a relatively clean, extensive and efficient system. That said the culture does seem to emphasize the TTC employee more than viewing the system as a customer service or public good. Overall however the result is fairly good and I think small incremental improvements in costumer service are all that is needed. I would support fare increases and zone charges first before considering any long-term structural increase in public subsidy. When you just wave the magic wand the money tends to get locked up by the princelings before trickling down to the people.

 

[UD2]

In 1998 the TTC averaged an operating cost of $1.15 per ride. Indexed to inflation that would be equivalent to $1.84 today. In 2009 the cost per ride average is $2.75, 49% above inflation.


.

The price of gas in 1998 was 46.9 cents/litre.

How much was it last year? $1.38/litre. 194% increase

Currently it's at 95 cents. 102% increase.

And with fuel being one of TTC's biggest expenditure, do your own math.

Plus the cost of introducing new technology (hybird buses) and phasing out and disposing the old (how many busses had AC in 1998?), with other capital expanditures and additions like the next train timer in stations, stop announcements and cameras on busses, streetcars and trains, along with the recently built ROWs on St. Clair and QQ. This is besides the cost incurred by the TTC to fix up the old stations that they haven't ever upgraded for the past 20 years. Also higher frequency and later running busses. Subway control upgrades to allow for shorter headway and thus, higher service frequencies.

Your getting more service than you were in 1998, expect to pay more for it. Infact, taking into account inflation, the higher price of fuel, and better service, I think we're paying less than we were.

 

[Whoaccio]

^
I don't know where you got the idea that fuel is "one of the TTC's biggest expenditures," but it simply isn't. In '08 the TTC reports vehicle fuel costs as about 69m, out of a budget approaching 1,300m, or 5% of the budget.

By far the biggest single cost for the TTC are its wages, salaries and benefits. They account for over 70% of total expenditures.

 

[EnviroTO]

I don't think it is any surprise. If all the ridership growth was on the subway system alone the cost per rider probably would have gone down but riders on buses cost the system money. Adding buses to handle loads add the cost of a driver, fuel, and bus. Also, increasing congestion on the roads requires the addition of even more buses, drivers, and fuel because a single bus can't make the run as quickly. Without the completion of congestion free ROWs and/or the addition of vehicles which can handle larger numbers with less drivers and/or energy costs there is no way the TTC could be expected to significantly reduce the cost per rider. This means capital expenses are the only significant way to reduce the cost per rider (i.e. larger more energy efficient vehicles, and ROW infrastructure). TTC management really doesn't have much control over how much is spent on capital expenses since that money comes from the three levels of government. I think the only thing they could do that they aren't doing already is pushing to get more articulated buses which would probably need city or province approval as well.

 

[rbt]

In 1998 the TTC averaged an operating cost of $1.15 per ride. Indexed to inflation that would be equivalent to $1.84 today. In 2009 the cost per ride average is $2.75, 49% above inflation.

Huh? I cam see where you got the 2009 operating cost from but the 1998 cost?

In 1998 tokens were $1.60 and the metropass was $83 and TTC was receiving an operations subsidy of 15% to 20%. I doubt a trip cost was $1.15. Perhaps $1.75.

Do you have the operations expenses and ridership for that year?

 

[Glen]

The price of gas in 1998 was 46.9 cents/litre.

How much was it last year? $1.38/litre. 194% increase

Currently it's at 95 cents. 102% increase.

And with fuel being one of TTC's biggest expenditure, do your own math.

Plus the cost of introducing new technology (hybird buses) and phasing out and disposing the old (how many busses had AC in 1998?), with other capital expanditures and additions like the next train timer in stations, stop announcements and cameras on busses, streetcars and trains, along with the recently built ROWs on St. Clair and QQ. This is besides the cost incurred by the TTC to fix up the old stations that they haven't ever upgraded for the past 20 years. Also higher frequency and later running busses. Subway control upgrades to allow for shorter headway and thus, higher service frequencies.

Your getting more service than you were in 1998, expect to pay more for it. Infact, taking into account inflation, the higher price of fuel, and better service, I think we're paying less than we were.

First off we are talking about the operating budget, not the capital. Secondly, as Whoaccio pointed out, fuel cost are not as large as you seem to think. On top of that the TTC hedges its fuel cost, successfully.

 

[kEiThZ]

I would say that the TTC is par for the course when it comes to municipal governments and affiliated agencies. In general municipal services don't seem to be as well run as higher levels of government. But I suspect that has a lot to do with the talent pool that the latter draw from and the political leadership that's provided. Those higher levels of government are scrutinized far more than city governments and agencies. That undoubtedly leads to some complacency.

With regards to the specific issue of increased Metropass usage, it should be disconcerting that the impact could not be analyzed and forecasted properly. That means that the TTC has a very poor handle on its customer base and the ridership patterns of a whole chunk of that base. But to me, this seems like an attempt at scapegoating Metropass users by the TTC. Metropass users impact the system most during off-peak hours. But even here, it's unlikely that there are enough Metropass users on any given route to significantly alter services along said route. So it's unlikely that Metropass users (while drawing in reduced revenue) would be incurring significant costs. How much marginal cost can there be to accommodating Metropass user on a off-peak bus route?

 

[Glen]

Huh? I cam see where you got the 2009 operating cost from but the 1998 cost?

In 1998 tokens were $1.60 and the metropass was $83 and TTC was receiving an operations subsidy of 15% to 20%. I doubt a trip cost was $1.15. Perhaps $1.75.

Do you have the operations expenses and ridership for that year?

Sorry I was said 1998. It should have read 1988. The figures are correct though and apply to 1988.

Stats from here.
http://www.stevemunro.ca/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/BobBrent1988To2005.pdf

 

[kettal]

Sorry I was said 1998. It should have read 1988. The figures are correct though and apply to 1988.

Stats from here.
http://www.stevemunro.ca/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/BobBrent1988To2005.pdf

There was much less traffic in 1988. TTC didn't have to pay bus drivers to inch along in gridlock like they do today.

 

[CodeMonkey]

In 1998 the TTC averaged an operating cost of $1.15 per ride. Indexed to inflation that would be equivalent to $1.84 today. In 2009 the cost per ride average is $2.75, 49% above inflation.


From Posted Toronto;

The Toronto Transit Commission will transport roughly the same number of people this year as it did 20 years ago. But with 25% more staff.

In 1988, 9,963 TTC staff transported 464 million people. In 2009, 12,411 TTC staff will transport 473 million people. That’s 2,448 more staff to move 2% more people.

The TTC, once the poster child of an efficient transit service, is becoming the thing that its former lean-and-mean leader, David Gunn, hated the most: a bloated bureaucracy. The TTC this year is continuing a spending and hiring bonanza: spending is up 10.4% and the TTC is hiring 508 new staff.

TTC brass will protest: We’re adding service! True, except that just 222 of the 508 new staff are drivers.

Adding what service? When the SRT was being built the union cry foul over the system being automated and feared they where going to be fazed out. Of course the TTC claimed that the automated system didn't work or so the union TTC mechanics said.

Same is why TransitCity LRTs are being pushed. When the new subway trains are ready to be fully automated the staff will then transfer to running the LRT network with a additional 508 new staff. Just remember building the LRT may be the cost effective, but running may be more costly than building a automated subway.

 

[rbt]

There was much less traffic in 1988. TTC didn't have to pay bus drivers to inch along in gridlock like they do today.

Actually, there were more buses on the road in 1988 than today.

Inching along simply means we have less rush-hour service today than we did then with the equivalent fleet size; and todays fleet size is smaller.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The price of gas in 1998 was 46.9 cents/litre.

How much was it last year? $1.38/litre. 194% increase

Currently it's at 95 cents. 102% increase.

Except that buses use diesel oil, currently 88.4¢. Last year, diesel was higher than gasoline. Normally, diesel is cheaper than gasoline and there is better mileage as well.

 

[unimaginative2]

Because it's a public service. It's not that difficult to understand.

If there is a record number of house fires this year, then the fire department would require a bigger budget, right?

Yet your math technique will tell us that we need a smaller fire dept. budget because there is a record number of fires?

It's hardly that simple. If the fire department charged to put out fires and they had a fixed plant of fire stations and trucks that had higher utilization rates, it's quite reasonable to assume that the fire department would require less subsidy if there were more fires.