books
Active Member
John Tory is a Conservative idiot who believes running a large city is "just like running your household budget". Conservatives do not understand economics.
|
|
|
John Tory is a Conservative idiot who believes running a large city is "just like running your household budget". Conservatives do not understand economics.
books
Active Member
The Star has a nice article about the arrival of 4431.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/02/03/welcome-to-toronto-streetcar-4431-arrives-from-thunder-bay.html
Quote:
"In the early days of the program it could take up to 20 days to get a new car into service, but Mada said the TTC and Bombardier have cut that down to eight.
'The early cars, it was a learning process for everyone in terms of how the car handled our conditions in Toronto, as opposed to the test track,' he said.
If all goes well, car 4431 should welcome its first passengers by next Friday."
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/02/03/welcome-to-toronto-streetcar-4431-arrives-from-thunder-bay.html
Quote:
"In the early days of the program it could take up to 20 days to get a new car into service, but Mada said the TTC and Bombardier have cut that down to eight.
'The early cars, it was a learning process for everyone in terms of how the car handled our conditions in Toronto, as opposed to the test track,' he said.
If all goes well, car 4431 should welcome its first passengers by next Friday."
nfitz
Superstar
Isn't that how they damaged the overhead on Spadina with car 4409 last week?
dowlingm
Senior Member
I did say *could* and not *would*
Obviously, the nature of the incident with the pole would make it possible in some scenarios and not others.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
So with ice storms can we expect the same issues with overhead wires when it comes to Transit City and an electrified GO.
nfitz
Superstar
I don't think either will use poles. More comparable to the AMT Deux-Montagnes line - which certainly gets enough ice storms. I don't think that line is particularly problematic.
drum118
Superstar
To some point, but not close to what takes place today.
Surprise TTC didn't have ice cutters on pole to deal with this issue before the storm show up.
Once pans are use, the overhead will be stagger to allow the pans to become ice cutters, depending on the amount of ice that forms on the wires. The wires have to be stagger so not to cut/wear a grove in the pans.
Maybe with this mess, staff will kick start the unfinished intersections work done ASP so pans can be use on various lines.
3 days for 4432 to show up on the 8.2 days between delivery, but not going to happen.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Trimet have a few vehicles with heated cutters on their pantos.
http://howweroll.trimet.org/2016/12/01/how-transit-works-in-snow-and-ice/
smallspy
Senior Member
Trimet - and by extension, many of the LRT systems - need this kind of equipment as they are running primarily single or paired units, with few points of contact with the overhead wire. Even with a headway of only a couple of minutes, this can allow ice to form on the overhead.
It's simpler for many of the heavy-rail systems, as they either have the ability for a single unit to draw from two points (most locomotives have multiple pantographs), or have multiple units all with their own individual points of contact. The first pantograph acts to break up the ice build-up from the overhead, allowing the following ones to have a nice clean wire to draw from.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
robmausser
Senior Member
Talk to any politician, average citizen about a technical issue like icing on streetcar wires, above ground transit stops, etc, and you will get reactionary statements like "these things just don't work in cold weather! we need subways, buses! Underground transit only works in colder climates" etc.
Talk to any qualified engineer, and they will tell you that there are hundreds of simple cost effective solutions like de-icers on pantographs designed for cold weather, switch heaters, heated platforms etc.
Talk to any qualified engineer, and they will tell you that there are hundreds of simple cost effective solutions like de-icers on pantographs designed for cold weather, switch heaters, heated platforms etc.
TOareaFan
Superstar
this might be a stupid question but that would not make it unique in my questions.....why are streetcar wires so susceptible to icing? I get that they are "out there in the open" but I would have thought the electricity running through them would have been enough to keep them warm enough that they would be among the last bits of infrastructure to freeze....they seem to be among the first.
robmausser
Senior Member
Electricity doesn't run until an electrical system is in a closed loop, either a connection of the negative and positive wires of an electrical system, or the ground.
So when the streetcars don't pass under a section of streetcar wire, there is no electrons passing through them, just a negative or positive potential.
Even when they do, there is only substantial resistance (heat is from resistance in an electrical system) directly between the wire and the streetcar trolly pole contact.
So only for a brief time.
The wires are quite cold, metallic and exposed, a perfect combination for ice to form.
Also considering the point of contact for the trolly pole is the underside of the wire, where water will hang onto since water is a relatively sticky substance that will cling to objects.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The Transit City lines will likely run with two or three light rail car trains during ice storms, with all of their pantographs making contact.
books
Active Member
Having been on the 510 yesterday I can definitely appreciate this quote from the above article.
"The trains have pantograph heaters that are activated in snow and ice, and these also help prevent ice from accumulating."
But then maybe TriMet gets substantial and sustained funding from the state and federal levels.
44 North
Senior Member
Yesterday was absolutely brutal, and it wasn't even that big of an ice storm. Around 6 I saw maybe thirty W/B vehicles at a standstill between Yonge and River (Flexity, CLRV, and buses). Stuff like that makes me think any King transit plans should consider a small (~2-3km) grade-separation of the 504. Costly, yes. But over half a century overdue.