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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

The streetcar already has priority on the left turn coming south on Spadina to Adelaide. All they have to do is extend that priority until the right turn into Charlotte. This will eliminate cyclists coming east on Adelaide from west of Spadina, but not the ones coming east on Adelaide after having turned right from northbound Spadina (this is a smaller volume though). Altogether this will at least help the situation (and piss off eastbound drivers on Adelaide -- they can go bugger off).

As for the mess turning into and off of King St... that's a fiasco.
why not just end the short turning altogether? As others have noted, the length of time that the new cars take to make the combined 3 turns necessary combined with the delays they impose on other streetcars, cyclists, pedestrians and (yes) vehicle traffic must make it a very unproductive practice.
 
Also, since 4411 seems to be in service now, what's the ETA on 4412?

They are already behind what we thought was the pace required to meet their last commitment of 20 cars in service by the end of the year. Currently they are at 29 days since the last delivery, which is approaching the average delivery rate of 36 days that they achieved before the latest commitment.

Conclusion: 4411 is behind schedule and Bombardier will not meet their latest commitment if they continue on this path.

More lies from Bombardier; the sky is blue; tell me something I don't know.
 
A certain person within TTC thinks there is not enough ridership south of Kings St to justify putting more service there now. They also believe until something is done about the traffic issues at the Lake Shore, the extra service will be caught up in it and will dilute the quality of service north of King St. Gee!! I guess King Intersection mess doesn't count.

It's not a "certain person" - it's the Planning Department. And they're right, the ridership south of King is about 40% of what the ridership is north of King (well, north of Queen, actually).

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
It's not a "certain person" - it's the Planning Department. And they're right, the ridership south of King is about 40% of what the ridership is north of King (well, north of Queen, actually).

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Has the TTC done a study on the impact to the travel time on King when they use it to short-turn Spadina? During rush-hour it takes 1/2 to a full light cycle for the Spadina car to turn right (backing up cars and the King Streetcar).

Understand that there isn't a large demand south of Queen/King but I think the short-turn helps Spadina but really hurts King.
 
Has the TTC done a study on the impact to the travel time on King when they use it to short-turn Spadina? During rush-hour it takes 1/2 to a full light cycle for the Spadina car to turn right (backing up cars and the King Streetcar).

Understand that there isn't a large demand south of Queen/King but I think the short-turn helps Spadina but really hurts King.

I honestly can't say whether they've "done a study" of it per se, but they are aware of the impact on the schedules - and the costs involved as well.

And considering that they've allowed it to go on over the years, I think it's fair to assume that they've concluded that the additional costs involved and incurred to the King route with short-turning at Spadina outweigh the costs of running the additional Spadina service down to Queens Quay (plus whatever additional costs may then be incurred against Harbourfront).

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Honestly, King and Queen's Quay are both pretty bad locations for scheduled turnbacks (I prefer to keep the term 'short turn' for unplanned mid-route turns to adjust service, not regular planned branches of a service, but whatever).

At King, there's the cycle track issue on Adelaide, there's the massive pedestrian and car traffic at Charlotte and King making that turn difficult at times, the traffic westbound that short stretch on King can crawl, the pedestrian traffic at Spadina makes the turn difficult, and yes, the 510 turning back north delays automobile and 504 westbound traffic by a signal cycle much of the time. Also, it renders that turn basically useless for other service detours, as we saw, for instance, with TIFF service turning at Bathurst instead of at Spadina--having both the 510 and the 504 turning there, or detouring the 501 via King turning at Spadina, for whatever reason, is far too much for that intersection to handle. Some extra transit priority would go a long way towards helping, but alas. And of course this results in the massive demand at Bremner being wildly underserved, and difficult linkage to the 509 as well.

At Queen's Quay, it's honestly not all that much better. The north-south transit signal through Lakeshore is rare and brief due to not only Lakeshore but the Gardiner off-ramp being so high-volume. Again, extra transit signal priority would be a godsend, but I doubt that'll really happen. Even when eastbound lakeshore/gardiner offramp traffic has a red, there's the southbound Spadina left turn signal onto Lakeshore eastbound which requires a transit red. Once a car gets down to Queen's Quay, the east/west light is quite long, as it should be, between cars and the 509, and the streetcars need a priority signal to turn coming south on Spadina and can't turn on the general southbound green. If there's an LFLRV, or two CLRVs, servicing the eastbound stop at Queen's Quay and Spadina, they can't make their turn even on that signal or they'll block the intersection. Once they turn, offload passengers, and the driver explains to about 10 people "no, this streetcar isn't going to union, it's turning back north, please get off and wait for a streetcar that says Union Station", they need to make their left turn into the loop, which also requires a priority signal. Let's hope the loop isn't full, especially with operators stopping short of the end of the loop since it's closer to the bathroom, or else they can't enter it. Oh yeah, while they're waiting to turn into the loop, they're also blocking the 509 from continuing--again, two CLRVs or a single LFLRV and any eastbound 509s or southbound 510s can't proceed into the intersection legally. Once it turns in, let's hope the guy ahead hasn't fallen asleep, or isn't spending too long in the bathroom, at Shoppers, or at Starbucks. Then when leaving the car has to hope there are no cars blocking the loop exit by lining up at the northbound light at Lakeshore. If there are, it has to wait for them to clear, often drivers will go through on that very short green and not courteously let the streetcar go ahead of them. It has to take the turn and hope the light is still green by the time it gets onto Spadina, or it has to wait another several minutes for another green. Also, northbound and southbound cars at Bremner/Fort York and Spadina are often blocked by the massive numbers of drivers who enjoy blocking that intersection at all times of day.

So yeah, neither is perfect. I'm very much of the opinion that about half or two thirds of scheduled service should run to Queen's Quay with the rest to Union, with no regularly scheduled turnbacks at King (only rare short turns and 504/501 detour routing), as I think the issues at King and Queen's Quay are roughly equal and the demand at Bremner is high enough, but I don't think there are any signs of that happening soon. If I recall correctly, around August 31st when the LFLRVs started running, 100% of the service was running to Queen's Quay (as the route to Union was not operational yet, and I think something was going on at King that precluded using that turn) and that was fantastic for people down here...I kind of miss it. Honestly I'm even of the opinion that the 510 shouldn't run to Union, that can be served by better 509 service making the transfer relatively painless, but that's a very unpopular opinion for residents at Spadina and Bremner. Interesting to think about, if nothing else...
 
Uh-oh ...

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So…

TTC statement on streetcar production delays and Bombardier

October 16, 2015

Bombardier Transportation advised Toronto Transit Commission staff yesterday (Oct. 15) that the delivery schedule and public commitment made on July 29 that would see 23 new streetcars in Toronto by the end of this year, with 20 available for service, will not be met.

There are just 10 new streetcars available for service in Toronto today. Based on the original contract schedule, 67 of 204 new streetcars on order should be serving TTC customers. The eleventh new streetcar is not scheduled to be shipped to Toronto until Oct. 21. Bombardier is stating the TTC will now see a total of just 16 streetcars in-service at the end 2015. Given Bombardier's failure to meet past commitments, the TTC has no confidence in this latest schedule.

TTC CEO Andy Byford has advised TTC Chair Josh Colle and the TTC board of this development. He is recommending that the board now bring forward a deferred staff report to its Oct. 28 meeting regarding future sanctions that may be levied against Bombardier. TTC staff will also recommend to its board that it commence legal action, or make a claim allowed for already in the contract, of $50 million for late delivery. The TTC will also seek damages for maintenance and overhaul costs of the existing streetcar fleet; service and customer impact costs, such as supplementing streetcar routes with buses; and TTC staff time that has been expended on this matter, and will continue to be expended.

TTC customers are rightly frustrated by the lack of accessible streetcars in service today. The TTC has been working with Bombardier to resolve quality issues, and will continue to do so. The new streetcars that are in service today have performed exceedingly well; however, the TTC will not accept streetcars that do not pass its high standard of quality assurance, reliability and safety.

"I am incredibly disappointed to learn that Bombardier, yet again, will not be meeting their commitments to deliver new streetcars to Toronto," said TTC Chair Josh Colle. "They have let down the TTC, our customers, the good workers in Thunder Bay, and all Toronto residents. We will not let Bombardier's incompetence hold our patient and loyal customers hostage. We will consider all legal and financial actions at our disposal to address this situation."
 
Wow! How many times now has this schedule been revised. Is this the fourth revision?
Since the ramp-up, 4411 was delivered Sept. 15th. That means that in 107 days between then and the end of the year, they only plan to deliver 6 streetcars. That's 18 days between deliveries which is better than they've managed yet (20 days between 4410 and 4411). That will also make it 36 days since the previous delivery. Truly alarming to see this slip in performance along with yet another promise. I guess it's right to take legal action.
 
Wow! How many times now has this schedule been revised. Is this the fourth revision?
Since the ramp-up, 4411 was delivered Sept. 15th. That means that in 107 days between then and the end of the year, they only plan to deliver 6 streetcars. That's 18 days between deliveries which is better than they've managed yet (20 days between 4410 and 4411). That will also make it 36 days since the previous delivery. Truly alarming to see this slip in performance along with yet another promise. I guess it's right to take legal action.


I have zero confidence that they will get us 6 before the year end. Zero. There is no evidence to support that they will.

Bombardier lied to us for the last 3 schedules, I have no evidence to believe they will be honest this time.
 
Wow! How many times now has this schedule been revised. Is this the fourth revision?
I think it's the fifth schedule this year. There were others before that. Lately, they issue one a month, delaying delivery by a month.

Since the ramp-up, 4411 was delivered Sept. 15th. That means that in 107 days between then and the end of the year, they only plan to deliver 6 streetcars.
6 in service. The last version was 23 delivered with 20 in service. If they'd be up to weekly deliveries, then presumably to meet the latest schedule, they have to deliver 6 cars by December 10th. There's only 55 between now and December 10. There's also no sign of any having shipped from Thunder Bay, so none en route. So they have to ship 6 cars in the next 50 days. That's pretty much one every 8 days.

TTC noted that it "has no confidence in this latest schedule".
 
BAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. that's all I can utter out now..... Seriously this whole project has been a joke from the start.
 

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