Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[EnviroTO]

Yes, I know that extending north of Steeles is better. I've said so a hundred times. Steeles is better than Finch, though, which is precisely what you quoted.

I would only agree with that if Finch was not already the terminus of the Yonge line with two existing bus terminals. If the subway was currently at Eglinton and they were considering where to extend it to the options of Richmond Hill and Steeles would both be better than Finch. With it already at Finch it doesn't make much sense to me to go through the whole process of getting teams to develop the plan, engineer it, tender things out, and build a bus terminal which would only serve a fraction of the buses passing by to save 2km on a limited number of routes. I would say build it to Richmond Hill or leave it as is.

 

[lead82]

Exactly, if the subway is extended to Steeles, all that is needed is a simple bus terminal for the 60/53/97 buses. Let the YRT buses continue to go to Finch, or let them build their own terminal on the north side of Steeles.

This mammoth underground terminal they were planning is a complete waste of money. All they have to do is buy a parcel of the Centerpoint mall parking lot at the corner and use it as the bus terminal, simple and much cheaper than an underground cavern.

 

[EnviroTO]

Exactly, if the subway is extended to Steeles, all that is needed is a simple bus terminal for the 60/53/97 buses. Let the YRT buses continue to go to Finch, or let them build their own terminal on the north side of Steeles.

That reeks of anti 905 sentiment. Considering it is the province and the federal government paying for this infrastructure that mentality just doesn't fly. Safe to say an extension to Steeles will NOT be paid for by the city of Toronto. If the city was really willing to spend its own money on transit they would have announced their funding of some of the other expansion projects not 100% paid for by other levels of government. The city came up with Transit City yet funded nothing of it... had it been expected to pay 33% they would have committed something like $2 billion. This $2 billion could go to Don Mills LRT or the Waterfront LRT but it isn't... because the city was never planning on spending a cent.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Suddenly these outer communites think that they can dictate what happens in toronto? Re: Bloor/Yonge platforms.

 

[EnviroTO]

Suddenly these outer communites think that they can dictate what happens in toronto? Re: Bloor/Yonge platforms.

The TTC came up with the idea of increasing the number of platforms at Yonge-Bloor quite some time ago and designed Sheppard-Yonge based on the knowledge of Yonge-Bloor's limitations and it is them who have attached the requirement of Yonge-Bloor expansion to support the Yonge line extension. Transit City volumes would also create volume increases on the Yonge line requiring relief. The TTC has used the Yonge extension to promote a Yonge-Bloor project they have wanted anyways knowing it is more likely to be funded in doing so.

 

[hkric88]

Sheppard-Bloor

What? Sheppard-Bloor? is that next to Yonge and Bay? lol

 

[xtremesniper]

The plan is to build high density at Richmond Hill and Langstaff which means less people need to transfer if 16th Ave buses go to Richmond Hill Centre.

That's exactly it though, the YRT barely has any kind of routes that split off to go to high density areas to make transfers less necessary. And wherever they do it, they only do it because they're cutting the route short and they will be turning the buses back at that point (85B). Tell me of a route that the YRT has that veers off its main road, goes for 10 minutes to a central location, and then comes back up to continue its trek without turning back? I don't know of one except for Viva Purple, which does it twice.

If the YRT gets better at planning route schedules and frequencies, then fine, that's an acceptable solution. For the time being there is obviously not enough going on along 16th Ave to justify a subway stop at Yonge, however I think this is only because we're looking at the intersection in its present form, which is an incorrect observation to make.

It's already well known that on the south-east side of 16th Ave and Yonge, there are zoning changes being made to build at least 5 new high-rise condo towers. 5! (I think it was 5.. I think a thread about it exists somewhere on these forums). That's nothing to balk at. They have intensification plans for 16th Ave just the same as they do for Hwy 7. So fine, right now there's no point in a 16th Ave station, but a few years from now people will be saying the same thing. I think people underestimate just how many people bus in from the east/west communities along 16th Ave to get to Yonge, just to bus down to RHC or Finch Station. And the potential for growth along route 85 is big, given how many schools, homes, and businesses are located along the street in the first place.

In fact, in YRT's latest survey they ask if they should consider 16th Ave to be the next rapid transit corridor.

 

[EnviroTO]

There are huge condo / apartment clusters all over Toronto and they don't all have a subway connection. The bulk of 16th Ave is townhomes and detached homes. VIVA on Yonge will provide all the capacity 5 apartment buildings could ever need. I'm sure that the arrival of the subway at Richmond Hill Centre would change the way buses are routed in York Region simply due to demand.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

If 5 apartments need a subway extension, Bathurst & Steeles needs about 6 subway lines, and Warden & Finch needs perhaps 4 lines, as well.

 

[Fresh Start]

If 5 apartments need a subway extension, Bathurst & Steeles needs about 6 subway lines, and Warden & Finch needs perhaps 4 lines, as well.

Yes folks, we must never ever forget just how fortunate Richmond Hill/Thornhill residents are- who comprise under 9% of all commuters to and within the 416- to be recieving a gold-plated subway line when thankless apartment clusters the city/region over and even more deserving suburban hotspots like Mississauga City Centre and Scarborough Centre have their advocates literally crying blood to get an ounce of attention for their cause. Oh and yeah, most other high-density neighbourhoods don't have an underused but nonetheless readily available GO corridor sitting right next to them.

I told them but they refuse to listen, that there is nothing psychologically disparaging about having a TC-styled LRT line in exclusive ROW connect RHC to the subway. Talk of another subway extension beyond Hwy 7 to 16th Ave? Rubbish! The LRT would offer a one-seat continuous journey through all of Richmond Hill. It doesn't make Yonge North residents inferior, it ensures that the money is allocated to places where it would benefit the highest yield of people. Why on earth would you push for something like this, then go stand in the cold for 10 minutes in downtown Toronto waiting for a streetcar that will never arrive? Don't you think that a DRL subway of significant length is required first? In that vain, wouldn't Markham residents be better off utilizing north-south LRT/BRT that originates within its own territory, without need for a feeder to Yonge? And what if given the option to ride the GO Train at no extra cost than one's already paid bus fare; the bulk of new residents at RHC decide it is more convenient to travel inwards via that manner?

If even one-third prefer that mode and another third would be more than willing to utilize a LRT with the same stop spacings as the subway extension; there just might be just cause for exploring those avenues first before persuing this one. But fill new residents' heads with delusions of granduer and they will accept no less.

 

[ellett44]

Suddenly these outer communites think that they can dictate what happens in toronto? Re: Bloor/Yonge platforms.

People seem to forget that the ONLY reason why the DRL has come back into vogue after 20 years, has been because of 'these outer communities'! Perhaps its in our best interest to embrace this pressure and encourage more of it....just a thought.

 

[kEiThZ]

People seem to forget that the ONLY reason why the DRL has come back into vogue after 20 years, has been because of 'these outer communities'! Perhaps its in our best interest to embrace this pressure and encourage more of it....just a thought.

No, the reason it's come back is because Yonge-Bloor is bursting at the seams and the TTC is now at a point where it must spend half a billion on the station. In this instance, it makes more sense to spend that elsewhere. The situation would have prevailed even if no extension was built at all.

 

[leopetr]

[snip, redundant content]

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

The TTC came up with the idea of increasing the number of platforms at Yonge-Bloor quite some time ago and designed Sheppard-Yonge based on the knowledge of Yonge-Bloor's limitations and it is them who have attached the requirement of Yonge-Bloor expansion to support the Yonge line extension. Transit City volumes would also create volume increases on the Yonge line requiring relief. The TTC has used the Yonge extension to promote a Yonge-Bloor project they have wanted anyways knowing it is more likely to be funded in doing so.

...
Whereas a platform capacity problem has been identified at the Bloor Yonge Subway Stations and whereas the large building slated for development on the Southeast Corner of Yonge and Bloor has been put on hold, this would be an ideal time to begin construction to expand the capacity of the stations; and,

Whereas the funding to VIVA for Yonge Street and Highway 7 Bus Rapid Transit is appreciated, there is the one noticeable gap, being the Yonge Street Subway extension, which leaves buses in mixed traffic and gridlock from Highway 7 to Finch Ave; and,
...
1) That the Honourable Dalton McGuinty, Premier of Ontario be requested to initiate the public process to implement the alternate financing method for the immediate Finance, Design, Build for the Yonge Subway Extension and the Yonge Bloor platform modification project and implement value engineering to study cost reductions; and,

2) That the environmental assessment be modified to leave the subway alignment on Yonge Street at Richmond Hill Centre; and that consideration be given to a 1.0 kilometre extension to 16th Avenue and Yonge Street.
...

Is this not an outside community dictating how Toronto should handle it's own business?!?!?!? Yes Toronto first came up with the idea of expanding the platforms at Y-B but quickly realized/decided that it was better to pursue a $3-4 billion DRL instead of a $2 billion station modification to relieve pressure on Y-B. No where in that statement was there mention of the DRL option. Wonder why? I have an idea but then I'd be called an anti 905'er

They are quite literally demanding that the province of Ontario do an end around Toronto/TTC and build the B-Y platform expansion against the city's wishes. I don't even know how 1BE comes into play here since the Bloor line is on the north side of the intersection.

Imagine if Toronto said to York that they should build a transit oriented community first and only then will they build a subway there, or if they passed a resolution to Ontario asking them to fund a TC style LRT north along Yonge through York instead of a subway. Hell we are having flame wars on this very board over such comments and we have no significant impact in the decision making process.

 

[leopetr]

Is this not an outside community dictating how Toronto should handle it's own business?!?!?!? Yes Toronto first came up with the idea of expanding the platforms at Y-B but quickly realized/decided that it was better to pursue a $3-4 billion DRL instead of a $2 billion station modification to relieve pressure on Y-B.

Which Toronto has realized this? TTC hasn't realized this yet. The Y-B station expansion is still in the plans AFAIK, and DRL is only a side study. In fact, TTC just cancelled funding for its own DRL study in lieu of Metrolinx doing the study instead.