Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

nfitz said:
Given the simplicity of the math, I'm surprised that guesswork is needed - so I'll guess that this was meant as sarcastic trolling, rather than pointing out that I didn't include those two. Both of which I've cursed myself recently - I ended up carrying an 8-year old through the gates at the eastern entrance of Sherbourne a few weeks ago, as I'd forgot it's not enabled! But despite that I do use both stations regularly, I don't tend to think of them as downtown. I don't really think of Wellesley as downtown, but was trying to avoid a sarcastic comment. I'm sure somewhere, someone's downtown includes Dupont and Rosedale as downtown.

Through really ... surely by the time you get to Bay and Sherbourne, it's quicker to take the Bloor subway to Kipling to get to Pearson?
Click to expand...
I was using the city's definition of downtown: http://www1.toronto.ca/planning/6-downtown-waterfront-boundaries.pdf

I agree that once you're on the bloor line it's quicker to just take the TTC to the airport, but the other user's point was that you sometimes have to hunt for subway stations that accept presto.
 
nfitz said:
Things go more quickly in a dictatorship with only one government. So, we are behind on payment cards - but ultimately we are a much greater city than either of those two, because we are a democracy.
Click to expand...

I thought you were going to bring this democracy thing. Here you go. Apparently everything China did better was due to "dictatorship".
First, Hong Kong is not under a "dictatorship". Second, I am not sure if the slow motion of rollout has anything to do with democracy. And third, plenty of cities with democracy adopted it faster than Toronto. So your tired argument doesn't really fly here.

Also not that it is relevant, try to make a difference between "dictatorship" and "one party system" next time. They can be vastly different. If you think in China Xi Jinping can do whatever he wants without negotiation and compromise, you are hugely mistaken. Xi is not Hitler (which ironically is a product of democracy).
 
LNahid2000 said:
I was using the city's definition of downtown: http://www1.toronto.ca/planning/6-downtown-waterfront-boundaries.pdfp
Click to expand...
Which is quite interesting - apparenly Unwin and Leslie is downtown? Who knew?

Personally I was pulling it out of my ...

LNahid2000 said:
I agree that once you're on the bloor line it's quicker to just take the TTC to the airport, but the other user's point was that you sometimes have to hunt for subway stations that accept presto.
Click to expand...
Hunt? I just use it if it's there, or use tokens (or haul 35 kg children through the turnstile).
 
ksun said:
I thought you were going to bring this democracy thing. Here you go. Apparently everything China did better was due to "dictatorship".
First, Hong Kong is not under a "dictatorship"
Click to expand...
In 1997? Sure it was - the governor was all powerful.

Better? Not comparable. Why not use Tokyo as an example?
 
nfitz said:
Hunt? I just use it if it's there, or use tokens (or haul 35 kg children through the turnstile).
Click to expand...
Yes, hunt. There have been times where I've ridden my bike somewhere and decided last minute to take the TTC back, and all I had on my was my Presto card. So I had to hunt for a station that accepted Presto.
 
They've also done some interesting tinkering with the fare structure. It's nice they're allowing children 12 and under to ride for free...that certainly won't hurt. My only concern is that looking at future ridership numbers going forward they need to report paid ridership otherwise inclusion of children might just be to pad their numbers. The whole screwing around with meet-and-greet fares seems a bit like lipstick on a pig. Who wants to pay $55 to meet someone at the airport with a train?

One bit of data that's sorely lacking though is the average fare paid per rider. With the BOGO and corporate discounts floating around in December, I wonder how much revenue will change.
 
LNahid2000 said:
Yes, hunt. There have been times where I've ridden my bike somewhere and decided last minute to take the TTC back, and all I had on my was my Presto card. So I had to hunt for a station that accepted Presto.
Click to expand...
They still take cash!

Napoleon said:
Who wants to pay $55 to meet someone at the airport with a train?
Click to expand...
I do this a couple of times a year (not on UPX yet, but I will). But surely most would just pay $38 - heck, it's only $44 if you include the Presto Card!
 
rbt said:
Bills are cash too. Stations attendants are usually happy to make change.
Click to expand...
I had a guy walk up to me at a streetcar stop the other day looking for change - so I game him 2 toonies and a loonie, and he gave me a $5 bill.

I suspect most Torontonians are happy to make change!
 
I have sold subway tokens to folks arriving at the Terminal 1 TTC stop, when the machine there wasn't working (or wasn't taking the only bills they had, because they'd just been to the currency exchange and not obtained a selection of small bills). They were grateful for the assistance, but they looked at the tokens carefully, not quite sure if I was scamming them like the people one meets on some European transit systems.

My point about Presto was, imagine telling a potential Presto customer "you should buy this pass, you can use it in subways stations....well, mostly.... and on streetcars.... well, by year end I hope....and on buses.... well, eventually, and which ones I can't tell you yet, because only one bus garage will get Presto at a time....." their eyes glaze over and they ask what the cash fare is. It's not a shot at Presto, or at how TTC is rolling it out. It's just a dumb confusing mixed message to potential customers that conflicts with the idea that UPX is a good deal.

Given that Presto is not fully rolled out, and not a common part of transport in the part of Toronto that matters to UPX.....yet....it would have been prudent to avoid the whole topic and make the fares roughly equal.

In a year or two, when TTC's rollout is done (in the speedy and ultra effective manner that nfitz seems to believe is happening) and when Presto is widely understood, it makes sense to ramp up the Presto profile. But doing so under current conditions was counter productive.

- Paul
 
Are they pushing Presto hard now on UPX? I thought it was there as an option for those who ask for it. I've simply tapped on using my years-old card, so haven't really interfaced with the sales agents.

(not sure why you are doubting the TTC implementation - the streetcars look all but done - it's becoming increasing infrequent I don't see a CLRV (there's still some) with Presto (haven't been on enough ALRVs to comment - the buses should be straight-forward enough. I'm sure there'll be a couple of stations where things to bad, that will linger ... but I'd think most of the 69 will be done in 12 months).
 
nfitz said:
Are they pushing Presto hard now on UPX? I thought it was there as an option for those who ask for it. I've simply tapped on using my years-old card, so haven't really interfaced with the sales agents.

(not sure why you are doubting the TTC implementation - the streetcars look all but done - it's becoming increasing infrequent I don't see a CLRV (there's still some) with Presto (haven't been on enough ALRVs to comment - the buses should be straight-forward enough. I'm sure there'll be a couple of stations where things to bad, that will linger ... but I'd think most of the 69 will be done in 12 months).
Click to expand...

TTC is finally moving on this. I'm sure it will continue to progress fine, on a technical level anyways. It will be interesting to see whether Toronto riders warm to it when the tokens are finally withdrawn. Right now those who have it use it, but those who don't are oblivious. I know people who think the readers in the subway are for some sort of rewards card!

The relevance to UPX is simply that Presto is arriving too late for the opening day fanfare (I'm applying hindsight here, this will change in a year to 18 months). Until Presto is everywhere on TTC, the answer to the question "Why would I want Presto, anyways?" is a bit muddled. I find people who are not yet Presto-savvy see the UPX "buy Presto and get a cheaper fare" option as some sort of sneaky scam - like buying coupon books that don't turn out to be a good deal, or at least another unwanted card in their wallet that will never get used after their UPX ride. So when you try to argue that UPX for $19 is a reasonable fare, they respond "but only if you fall for that Presto scam".

It's a curious viewpoint, but I get it repeatedly from some otherwise intelligent and savvy people. I can see how non-Presto-savvy people would react that way - at least in the sense that they reject the premise that UPX's $19 fare is actually accessible to them.

- Paul
 
Last edited:
What I would like to see is the difference in GHG emissions this thing produces vs the number of passengers who would drive /take a cab or bus.

Remember this was sold as not only a airport connector but also as a way to reduce GHG emissions. Wouldn't it be interesting to see if GHG emissions are rising due to these near empty trains running on diesel?
 
crs1026 said:
Right now those who have it use it, but those who don't are oblivious. I know people who think the readers in the subway are for some sort of rewards card!

- Paul
Click to expand...

I still remember using Presto about 4/5 years ago at College Station when it was still being tested. I kept my card between my phone and phone case, and would simply tap my phone to the reader. Some people behind me would watch in amazement, and then attempt to do the same thing with no luck.

I think a lot of people want to use it, it's just not ready for them yet. I can see it becoming popular fairly quickly.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top