Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

Woodbridge_Heights said:
Amazing how people will frame their analysis to suit their bias.

First there would never be an express bus taking you to Pearson for $8, sorry not going to happen. Pacific Western ran a bus as mentioned and the cost was up in the $25 range. Furthermore said service would not stop at your front door, more likely would be a pick up at either union station or the bus terminal at Bay and Dundas, therefore there would still be a 15 +/- minute walk or a $3 subway ride to the pick up point of this hypothetical service. Now add that to the travel time in the bus to the airport (likely 35+ minutes). Tell me again how this scenario saves you time/money?

Second I find it hard to believe the majority of downtown residents don't own a metropass, even presto is starting to gain traction.

Third 75 minutes (from you subsequent post) vs 25 minutes + time to get to UPX station. That's a 50 minute spread!!! So it might take a bit of travel to get to Union, however I would imagine that if you can get to Union in 30 minutes or less would find UPX convinient.
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I don't have a bias against UPX. Actually I am glad we have it because it provides an option, although a somewhat expensive one. I will still take it when it is needed (for example , back from a vacation when I don't really feel like taking the TTC).

To Q1, I didn't mean to save time. I only said the saved time from UPx isn't always worth it. If there is bus service, it might take the same time as TTC and doesn't save a minute, but I will take it to avoid the connections associated with TTC, and the premium is $5 instead of $16, which I can accept. I didn't know there was $25 airport bus before. That's pretty insane to me, considering Uber costs like $30. No wonder it doesn't operate any more.

Q2: most of my friends don't own one. We walk all the time. Some are members of the bikeshare program which is convenient (I will join next year). I hardly get out of downtown, so a metropass is a waste of money. I probably take the TTC for 4 times a month. Actually not having to take the TTC is precisely the reason we live downtown. We are not only car free, but also largely transit free.

Q3: UPx takes 15 minutes walk to Union, plus 7-8 minutes wait on average (I happen to have waited for 12 minutes that day), plus 25 minutes ride, plus another a few minutes walk to gate. It is close to an hour already, plus the need to lug to Union. The entire TTC trip to Pearson (from Queen) is usually 60-70 minutes. UPX still saves 10-15 minutes in total, but I am not sure 10-15 minutes is that crucial - considering one is very likely to wait for an hour at the gate before taking off anyway.

I don't have an agenda against UPx. I think it is great that we have this option for those who like it. Just trying to point out the fact that for even downtown dwellers, it doesn't save as much time as many think. The closer you live near Bloor, the less time you save. The advantage is more about the comfort and absence of TTC related hassles. If I still lived at Yonge/Bloor like I used to, I wouldn't consider it since it will make zero sense to me.
 
ksun said:
To Q1, I didn't mean to save time. I only said the saved time from UPx isn't always worth it. If there is bus service, it might take the same time as TTC and doesn't save a minute, but I will take it to avoid the connections associated with TTC, and the premium is $5 instead of $16, which I can accept. I didn't know there was $25 airport bus before. That's pretty insane to me, considering Uber costs like $30. No wonder it doesn't operate any more.
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Actually the article in the Star (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...rt_express_bus_to_stop_service_this_fall.html ) when they announced they were stopping the service said it was $27.

Also told us that it ran on 40 minute frequencies 20 hours a day and took about an hour ( "sometimes more"). This was, apparantly, an increase of about 30 minutes from its peak ridership days when it carried about 400,000 people a year. At suspension they were down to 190k. When that information is considered, it is hardly surprising that UP thought that if they could offer a $19 service, on 15 minute frequencies, with guaranteed travel time of 25 minutes in an environment much more comfortable than the bus was in a city that has seen significant growth that they could capture much higher ridership numbers.
 
I love how ridership is so low at Bloor and Weston that they're offering free taxis instead of a shuttle bus.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/projectsandprograms/upexpress/upexpress_status.aspx
Service Disruption Alert for Tuesday, December 1
On December 1, UP Express service will be affected by the construction of the John Street Pedestrian Bridge in Weston. The last northbound train will depart Union Station at 9:00 p.m., while the last southbound train will leave Toronto Pearson at 9:42 p.m.

During the service interruption a bus bridge will be established to accommodate guests traveling between Union and Pearson. Guest Service Representatives will be on hand to assist passengers and provide complimentary taxis for guests needing to access Bloor and Weston stations.

Full service will resume at 5:30 a.m. on December 2. While we anticipate that the work will be completed in a single night, December 2 has been allocated as a contingency day in case more time is required.

The Georgetown South project made a number of improvements to the Kitchener GO rail corridor, including construction of the Weston Tunnel. The Weston Tunnel was created by lowering the GO rail corridor from Lawrence Avenue to Weston road, and covering the portion between King Street and Church Street. However, because the rail corridor was not low enough to keep the road level, John Street was closed to pedestrian traffic. In order to restore pedestrian access across the tracks, a bridge has been designed that can be lifted into place.

The bridge will provide access to the new community centre being developed on what is currently the John Street parking lot, and it will also connect the residential neighbourhood north of the tracks to the Weston Road business area and the Weston GO/UP Express station.

For further information, please contact us at 416-869-3200.
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Looks like we're finally getting our pedestrian bridge....was supposed to be open at least 6 months ago (I think.)
 
TOareaFan said:
Actually the article in the Star (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...rt_express_bus_to_stop_service_this_fall.html ) when they announced they were stopping the service said it was $27.

Also told us that it ran on 40 minute frequencies 20 hours a day and took about an hour ( "sometimes more"). This was, apparantly, an increase of about 30 minutes from its peak ridership days when it carried about 400,000 people a year. At suspension they were down to 190k. When that information is considered, it is hardly surprising that UP thought that if they could offer a $19 service, on 15 minute frequencies, with guaranteed travel time of 25 minutes in an environment much more comfortable than the bus was in a city that has seen significant growth that they could capture much higher ridership numbers.
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That's the hotel bus I loathe very much. I meant a shuttle service that makes zero stops between downtown and Pearson. That bus takes an hour or more because it spends 40 minutes running between various hotels in downtown itself. I took it once, took less than 30 minutes from Pearson to the first stop downtown, then another 30 minutes+ to my stop. Never took it again, huge waste of time.

Upx is nice, but I think what prevents more people from taking it is not the price, but the need to get to Union. Think about it, for anyone who takes the BD Line already why make a change to Union and wait for the train instead of go directly to Kipling for the bus for $3? Makes no sense. For anyone north of say st Claire it also makes little sense to make a detour downtown to take the $19 train. It makes most sense for those who are close to Union already, because getting to Union itself with luggage is a hassle for most. This is why ridership is not great. Of course the price didn't help considering two persons travel together would Always want a cab door to door, instead of taking the trouble for this train.
 
ksun said:
Upx is nice, but I think what prevents more people from taking it is not the price, but the need to get to Union. Think about it, for anyone who takes the BD Line already why make a change to Union and wait for the train instead of go directly to Kipling for the bus for $3? Makes no sense.
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You say price is not the issue, but if the train wasn't so expensive then I bet some of those BD riders would transfer to UP (not at Union station, but at Dundas West station). It's faster and certainly a much nicer ride than taking the subway all the way to Kipling and then taking a bus. But with the fares the way they are, not many people are willing to do that.
 
Anybody else think this line should be a part of the TTC network? Line 6 - Airport Express

What they could do is treat it like any other TTC rapid transit line with a $3 fare/monthly or weekly pass/transfer to enter the line, with an asterisk on the map *$10 Surcharge required upon arrival at Pearson Airport.

I think $13 is very affordable for the line and I'd definitely take it, especially if there was an easy transfer onto the line from other TTC services.

By splitting the payment method into two parts, it makes the fare seem cheaper because optically it's like it's "only $10".

It'd seem much better than running trains empty all day @ $29.
 
Ya, that would make sense, with the caveat that those with a metropass don't pay the surcharge to encourage commuting.
Adding additional stops would be a step in the right direction as well.
 
Once we have congestion charges and tolls on the highways to Pearson, the UPX will seem more reasonable. Especially if we have a brutal winter. As for myself, I'm already a convert. When my family (two adults, two kids) flies we'll grab an Uber from Cabbagetown to Union for about $16 ($4 a head). Then use the Family Rate on the UPX of IIRC $54 (is there a Presto holder family rate?). There's no way an airport limo or other means can get me from Cabbagetown to Pearson in under 40 mins during weekday traffic.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Once we have congestion charges and tolls on the highways to Pearson, the UPX will seem more reasonable. Especially if we have a brutal winter. As for myself, I'm already a convert. When my family (two adults, two kids) flies we'll grab an Uber from Cabbagetown to Union for about $16 ($4 a head). Then use the Family Rate on the UPX of IIRC $54 (is there a Presto holder family rate?). There's no way an airport limo or other means can get me from Cabbagetown to Pearson in under 40 mins during weekday traffic.
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Why not Uber directly to Pearson? It will cost about $35 in total. For coming back, your plan makes more sense.
You might argue about traffic, but do you really always head to the airport during rush hours? The trip is smooth most of the time based on my experiences.
 
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