Toronto Toronto City Hall and Nathan Phillips Square | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | Perkins&Will

sk8r:

You're right, its not entirely a black ans white issue. I admit I was exaggerating. (I did have a soft spot for the old ROM addition though...) But these walkways are different. You stated some problems with the walkways, and we can all agree on those. My only issue is that it would be far better to address and fix these problems with an upgrade of lighting, maybe new uses, a good cleaning and maintenance program, etc. rather than tearing them down. These structures have not outlived their usefullness, and NPS only needs some maintanence and cleaning to be a great public space again.
 
I'm glad they a speaking about demolishing those structures. They are an eyesore, always have been, always will be. Right now they only act as a homeless shelter. They should just tear them down and replace them with trees and sculptures. Maybe a couple totem poles to embrace our native heritage like you find in Vancouver. The tourists love it.
 
I think that the walkways around NPS reflect that kind of democracy: an official, ceremonial space surrounded by an elevated public walkway symbolizes the fact that the municipal government should put the people of the city ahead and above itself.
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i think later generations should be able to critique the original architect's work and make improvements if there are improvements to be made. those walkways may theoretically bring the public above and ahead of the government, but they block the square off from the rest of the city. the square, whether it's properly maintained or not, is anything but inviting when you're on the outside. the idea of "enclosure" goes against the idea of openness and accessibility. good squares don't need enclosure and neither does NPS.

the bay and queen st sides stand to be improved the most. get rid of that stupid fence along bay that literally forces people into the square (a good square doesn't need to force people into it). make the part along queen a cafe like area with tables and that kind of thing where people can eat their hot dogs, people watch on queen, and enjoy the reflecting pool. the hot dog carts are there anyway. and do something about those elevated ventilation grates!! i like the big open part between the pool and the city hall building though.
 
I don't really think the walkway blocks the square off in any way. If it was perhaps made more light and transparent, it might be a plus, but I kind of like the idea of it. A more serious obstacle to accessibility are the bunkers and elevated ventilation grates... Also, the neglected "green" (meaning: brown) spaces along the outside of the walkway should probably be paved over, giving continuous access to the square even in wet/muddy times.
 
I'll be the first to lead the fight to save the walkways!

Louroz
 
I second Boiler on this. The barriers are the concrete block bunkers. If you want to remove barriers, start here. Improve the underground parking and PATH entrances to improve access. After that is done, maybe a repaving of the square is in order, and certainly some landscaping improvements wouldn't hurt.
 
Sleeksky is right -- they shouldn't get rid of the elvated walkways since they were such an integral part of Revell's vision. I think the biggest problem is what's going on inside the square. The bunkers, the little pavilion, the tents etc. are completely wrong and compromise the intended purity of the space. It's not the architect's design that makes the square bad, but all the crap the city added in the decades following its construction.

I love ES2
 
Anyone know if those cinder block bunkers (inexcusable) were a part of the original plans for NPS too? I agree the bunkers are even worse than the walkway and I could probably live with the walkway if it were cleaned up and actually open to the public, but I would rather see it go. As Kyle Rae said, it's purpose was to frame the square, but now we have the frame in the form of the highrises on Queen St. Also, when standing in NPS looking east towards beautiful Old City Hall, that horizontal band of concrete blocking the base really ruins the view. Get rid of the walkway, repave the square or replace with granite, fix the muddy grass, add some flowers and trees and, voila, a nice public space.

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Picture these photos without the walkway... wouldn't it look better?
 
My God!
I'll be one of the first to admit that the walkways have their problems, but how quickly so many members of this forum are to discount their many advantages! And for what - according to some of you, some sort of non-existant view corridor, or for the sake of kicking out homeless people (which, let it be known, tend to copngregate by the main doors anyways)???
Frankly, I'm a little sickened at the readiness to simply destroy these architectural vistiges of an earlier era, from the same people who pine about our lost victorian, georgian, and art-deco heritage.
These walkways were the architects way of making NPS into a truly intimate public domain. The square is quite large, and the walkways serve to frame those within in a very political and communitarian context - without it, gatherings in the square would be less coherent, and more diffuse. Think about it - most European squares are framed six storey buildings forming a constant wall of urbanity. Outside of NPS, streets bound the square on 2 sides, while a third is delineated by a fence and a parkette. Those streets, if allowed unfettered access to the confines of the square, would make it less a coherent civic experience.
To use another example, the walkways serve a similar function as the fence around Osgoode Hall, or indeed, those fences circumscribing many parks around the world - they turn the site into an oasis within the bustling urban context. Standing in NPS, one feels removed from the bustle of the city around her, and thus more open to the perticular experiences offered by the square itself.

I am not calling for the blind preservatiojn of the status quo. I agree that certain elements of the current walkways act to interfere with our appreciation of the square from without. However, I think that these problems can be addressed without wholesale destruction - I too think that any decision should be postponed until an architectural/urban design competition is completed.

My own suggestion - replace the concrete walls of the walkway with glass panels and steel railings at the very least, and perhaps each column with two thinner steel columns located at the edges of the walkway.
 
Weren't the walkway a failed experiment at a Calgary style "plus 15" systems?

Anyways I don't mind the walkways

Restore them, Replace the broken planters, re-sod, remove all temporary structures, demolish the cinderblock bunkers, remove the fence on Bay, remove the bridge to Sheraton, remove the monument on the east side (half built house?) lay down Dundas Square granite and I'll be happy
 
I completely agree with Junglab. The walkways serve an important function in framing the square, and they are an integral element in the entire design of the New City Hall Complex. I think that people are underestimating the completely transformative (and thus, distortive) effect that ripping down the walkways would have on the complex. Leave them be for future generations, which will hopefully marvel at the modernist heritage of our great city.

Of course, my desire to preserve the walkways does not imply that the square should not be cleaned up. The state of the walkways is merely indicative of the general state of NPS. For God's sake, clean it up. Replace the cracked stones tiles with some nice granite or something along those lines. Maybe redo the lining of the reflecting pond (or at least clean it up). Get rid of the bunkers. Redesign the square with more trees and a more defined sense of space. Oh, and, while you're at it, open a new exit off the Yonge and University lines and out of PATH right in NPS (apparently, there are underground passageways that could easily be connected).

But, for the love of all that is holy, save the modernist heritage that is the walkways. At the very, very most, replace the concrete walls with dark coloured glass (so as to have the same boundary effect).
 
The walkways don't block anything from view. The Square is huge, and from most parts of it the walkways form a low visual punctuation to the perimeter that defines the boundary of the space.
 
The walkways don't block anything from view. The Square is huge, and from most parts of it the walkways form a low visual punctuation to the perimeter that defines the boundary of the space.
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I don't think the walkways cause even a quarter of the disruption from the inside that they do from the outside. That's where the problem lies. From the outside the square is uninviting because of those very walkways, they do such a good job in enclosing the space that they also seem to close the square off to the outside. If you build a wall to enclose a space on the inside of NPS, you can't expect that same wall to be nonexistent from the outside of the square.
 
Im not too fond of the walkway, but how is tearing an integral part of the City Hall design down any different than tearing any other heritage building down? Is all that matters how it looks? Shouldn't history play a role as well?

That said, the walkway could really use some work. Kind of useless if you're not allowed on it. I think the square could still be quite nice with some work on the walkway. However, if they intend on not opening it to the public, tearing it down and replacing it or reworking the design of the square is a possibility.
 
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