Toronto The Kip District | 120.44m | 40s | Concert | BDP Quadrangle

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Actually the area is somewhat unique as far as subway nodes go - post-industrial landscape without any serious regional malls (Cloverdale barely counts, and it certainly isn't Sherway, Square One or even STC) and laden with transportation infrastructure (Six Points Complex) bordering an aging urban village (Islington). The area around Square One is pretty much a planned greenfield development, ditto STC. It wasn't displacing anything pre-existing. NYCC does, but it's mainly smaller sized strip malls and some detached residential.

AoD

 

[interchange42]

It is interesting that this area is lagging behind so much - it's located close to some pretty key transportation hubs and there are plenty of empty and probably cheap lots here. Even with this Kip District building, it will probably be upwards of 10 years before the boom really hits the area. As Interchange says, let's hope that they get some of the groundfloor retail right.

I have no idea how long it will take to sell each project, or when the adjacent ones are going to launch of course. With the Kip District having 5 buildings, who knows, a building a year might open starting 3 or 4 years from now, so a 8 to 9-year build out here? Adjacent properties are 5415 Dundas West, and 5485 Dundas West. The latest plans on those call for a total of 9 buildings on those two sites. West of Shorncliffe, there's more redevelopment potential including the huge Honeydale Mall property where 8 buildings are proposed. It will be interesting to see when those proposals get going—I'm assuming the ones close to the Kip District will come before the Honeydale Mall property, unless there's an west extension announced for the Bloor-Danforth line, at which point Honeydale gets very attractive because of its proximity to an East Mall station.

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[300SRT8]

Does anyone else think that this will be a difficult sell?

I went to the sales centre shortly after it opened at the corner of Dunbloor and Dundas. The one model suite they have is quite nice but only just the one and it's a one bedroom plus den model. Some things were a little weird like the tiny oven, literally could only cook a small chicken in it, forget about a turkey, not a chance. The fridge is small, all appliances are hobbit sized. I personally found the prices to be rather high, parking not included and maintenance fees don't cover much (all utilities are metered separately - heat, A/C, water and of course hydro)

The sales associate said that it would be about a decade before the entire community will be completed. That's a pretty long time to be living in a construction zone if one was to purchase in the first tower. I'd push that target further back, wouldn't surprise me if it takes closer to 15 years

 

[arcum]

I agree with you SRT8. Why would they cheap out on appliances?

I would rather see a development of freehold townhouses rather than more overpriced towers.

 

[ProjectEnd]

I agree with you SRT8. Why would they cheap out on appliances?

I would rather see a development of freehold townhouses rather than more overpriced towers.

Why not put density close to the subway line?

If the units are ill-equipped, as 300SRT8 suggests, that's one thing (and requires an awareness on the part of the purchaser). But those same units and appliances could appear in either typology so what's the argument against this one? the proponent thinks they can sell the units, what's your issue?

 

[blur]

I agree with you SRT8. Why would they cheap out on appliances?

I would rather see a development of freehold townhouses rather than more overpriced towers.

While I understand the issues with most condo towers today (poor quality, lack of space, overpriced etc) , this is an area where towers and mixed use developments should be encouraged because of the proximity to the subway and major arterial routes. Putting freehold townhomes would be an absolute waste of land and opportunity.

 

[Bruno Republic]

I'm surprised at how small the units are, given the location. These are downtown-sized spaces: The largest 2-bedroom unit is only 855 square feet, and most of the 1-bedroom units are under 600. Isn't the whole point of living in a lower-density area with fewer nearby amenities that you can get a much larger space for the same or even less cost?

 

[ProjectEnd]

Site Plan:

 

[arcum]

While I understand the issues with most condo towers today (poor quality, lack of space, overpriced etc) , this is an area where towers and mixed use developments should be encouraged because of the proximity to the subway and major arterial routes. Putting freehold townhomes would be an absolute waste of land and opportunity.

Yeah you guys are right...not sure why I was thinking that.

It would be cool if all the buildings are connected underground to access amenities etc. Would all the parking be shared I guess?

 

[Gotzvon]

Looking at that site plan and then remembering that what took up that whole lot before was a shitty Canadian Tire and a parking lot blows my mind. We were/are the masters of wasting space here in North America

 

[interchange42]

The master plan for this project appeared before the Design Review Panel today, with an earlier design reworked by Quadrangle Architects and MBTW Landscape Architects. Quadrangle are designing the two buildings of Phase two on Dundas. The new plan drops the amount of space required for cars onsite and maximizes it for pedestrians, making the central park area contiguous with some building fronts. Views between the site and Dundas have been improved and retail space has been located to encourage similar redevelopment on adjacent Dundas properties while also bringing people into the site to activate it.

The reception was good, and the panel voted unanimously in support of the plan, with one member calling the new ground realm "a silk purse out of a sow's ear". I will try to get images of the plans in the coming days.

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[Amare]

The master plan for this project appeared before the Design Review Panel today, with an earlier design reworked by Quadrangle Architects and MBTW Landscape Architects. Quadrangle are designing the two buildings of Phase two on Dundas. The new plan drops the amount of space required for cars onsite and maximizes it for pedestrians, making the central park area contiguous with some building fronts. Views between the site and Dundas have been improved and retail space has been located to encourage similar redevelopment on adjacent Dundas properties while also bringing people into the site to activate it.

The reception was good, and the panel voted unanimously in support of the plan, with one member calling the new ground realm "a silk purse out of a sow's ear". I will try to get images of the plans in the coming days.

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Thanks for the update, looking forward to see how this will pan out!

 

[WislaHD]

Dundas between the 427 and Six Points Interchange can really become a well-planned area with all this possible density!

I wonder if a Bloor West extension happens, that we might want to consider a station on Shorncliffe, between Kipling and East Mall, to better activate development sites around it. (Especially the Honeydale site) It's never been considered in any fantasy map I've seen but I don't think those maps ever considered the density this area might have by 2040.

 

[P23]

Looking at that site plan and then remembering that what took up that whole lot before was a shitty Canadian Tire and a parking lot blows my mind. We were/are the masters of wasting space here in North America

To my eyes it seems like it's still pretty generous with open space. I'm not sure why 3 plots of green space are necessary, for example. Not complaining though, it looks like a good development.

 

[interchange42]

It is. We just did a front page story on it the other day. It is taking longer to sell, and while, as you mention, Islington Terrace is selling well just one subway station away, there's quite a difference in the local landscape between the two, with the area near Islington Terrace being more urban and the near The Kip District being more suburban. Whereas Islington Terrace will feel more like infill in its area, The Kip District will be more transformative where it is. It will take more imagination for buyers here to see how this stretch of Dundas will one way look with its strip malls replaced with condominium towers and walkable retail, so sure, I'm not surprised sales are slower. Dundas does need the revitalization, so I hope that Concert and the other developers to the west succeed in making the street over.

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