Toronto Southcore Financial Centre & Delta Toronto | 159.71m | 45s | GWL | KPMB

isaidso said:
Better tell 1 billion Chinese people that not only are they living in the wrong century and galaxy, they're living in another space time continuum. Perhaps, you need to travel the world a bit more before it passes you by. A 350 metre tower might boggle your mind, but it's hardly an uncommon sight around the world. Did you fall asleep for a decade and just wake up?
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Outside China or the U.A.E, just how common are 350 metre towers? You make it sound as if they are sprouting up all over the place.

As others have stated, economics will dictate what gets developed.
 
It is curious why the office tower isn't higher given the choice location, not to mention, (selfishly I admit), adding to the cityscape here as well. So far, these are ( boring ) concept drawings that can change for the better. While it's a welcome boost to the downtown core, the office component is sketchy and maybe pre-emptive. I hope other land assemblers in the precinct take note and juice up their prospective developments. Is there even the slightest possibility a landmark building , which ought to be quite marketable, just waiting to break out ?
 
What makes you think the desgn will change, 18 Yorks looks exactly like the renders on the previous page.

You should find comfort in the fact that the glass at 18 York is of such an exceptional quality, and will likely make its way onto these additional towers as well. Should make for an interesting focal point in the skyline.
 
Frank Godfrey said:
It is curious why the office tower isn't higher given the choice location, not to mention, (selfishly I admit), adding to the cityscape here as well. So far, these are ( boring ) concept drawings that can change for the better. While it's a welcome boost to the downtown core, the office component is sketchy and maybe pre-emptive. I hope other land assemblers in the precinct take note and juice up their prospective developments. Is there even the slightest possibility a landmark building , which ought to be quite marketable, just waiting to break out ?
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There are at most ten property developers building commercial buildings of this size across Canada and their definition of landmark leaves a lot to be desired. I'll gladly accept this simple, elegant KPMB box with it's smooth fritted galss facade over the dressed up Jamieson Place or Centennial Place in Calgary. There are also way more lead tenants out there for a 700,000 square foot building than one that is over a million and to sign two large tenants in a short period of time such as Bay Adelaide Centre is an exception.
 
I'm not sure that this is great design for Bremner, and I see the potential it once had being eroded away with each new development. Bland glass boxes and massive dead podiums do not make for an engaging urban environment. Granted, the financial district isn't that vibrant either but at least it exudes dynamic scale and architecture... this is a step backwards in urban planning, or a lack of urban planning altogether more to the point. Shame. Wedged between the Dome and the ACC this emerging, relatively narrow thoroughfare was a blank slate that offered an opportunity to reimagine modern urban spaces on the one hand and to invest some urbanism in the largely Houston-like development that is spreading like a fungus in the area. I understand that some here are just happy to see towers rising in areas that were once parking lots but the potential was always more exciting to me than what we are getting.
 
Why would they build such a big podium joining the two towers (let alone the need to have them joined by a podium). I would have loved an "L" shaped podium here with a sunken (or not) plaza/square on the corner of Simcoe and Bremner. I think it would reflect nicely against the green of the park to the West and Rounhouse park to the South-West. Commission some art for the plaza and it would become a meeting place for the area.
 
The placement of the new tower with regard to 18 york just doesn't look right. Since they are of similar height and with pretty much the exact same cladding it just looks odd. I think a better look might be something that would have a few setbacks with the lower in front and higher in back. Still would be a relatively cheap design since its mostly just a modified box and it would break up the monotony. Also might help tie the hotel in better too
 
As I ponder their brash "damn the torpedos" bravado (in terms of starting their office tower now while vacancies are high) - it occurs to me that it is likely that the office tower proposed at ICE is further along in the development cycle and if they scramble and get going right away, they could beat Southcore to the punch and cause them to reconsider their timing.

Juat a thought.
 
Big Daddy said:
As I ponder their brash "damn the torpedos" bravado (in terms of starting their office tower now while vacancies are high) - it occurs to me that it is likely that the office tower proposed at ICE is further along in the development cycle and if they scramble and get going right away, they could beat Southcore to the punch and cause them to reconsider their timing.

Juat a thought.
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One hopes. At least their box was mildly interesting.

Oh, Toronto...
 
Frank Godfrey said:
It is curious why the office tower isn't higher given the choice location, not to mention, (selfishly I admit), adding to the cityscape here as well. So far, these are ( boring ) concept drawings that can change for the better. While it's a welcome boost to the downtown core, the office component is sketchy and maybe pre-emptive. I hope other land assemblers in the precinct take note and juice up their prospective developments. Is there even the slightest possibility a landmark building , which ought to be quite marketable, just waiting to break out ?
Click to expand...

The problem is that generally speaking, developers of office buildings -- along with the lead tenants who will have their names prominently displayed on these buildings -- are extremely conservative when it comes to design. They just want new, cheap, efficient floor space. Recall that KPMG had a hand in dumbing down the design of Bay Adelaide Centre by nixing the glass 'fins' that would have extended the building's curtain wall.

The exceptions: Telus - perhaps because it's in communications (and in a slightly more creative field) was a bit more bold in its design choice. As for the RBC Centre -- again, less bland than BAC. They probably felt they established a precedent with Royal Bank Plaza and wanted to continue that legacy of creative design, who knows.
 
Big Daddy said:
As I ponder their brash "damn the torpedos" bravado (in terms of starting their office tower now while vacancies are high) - it occurs to me that it is likely that the office tower proposed at ICE is further along in the development cycle and if they scramble and get going right away, they could beat Southcore to the punch and cause them to reconsider their timing.

Juat a thought.
Click to expand...

Many towers are planned to start construction on such and such a date and then don't. Just a thought but I'd wait for a shoring rig
 
Tewder, I appreciate your sentiment but I never suspected Bremner or for that matter any new waterfront streetscape to be particularly engaging at street level. The reason is that form and intriguing form solutions in buildings flow from ownership or responsiblity divisions. Some blank slate projects work out but rarely. I believe this is not a cultural but a universal phenomenon. The space between Union and the waterfront will soon be filled in with structures and land-uses that will provide a mediocre but improved connection between the city and the lake. Outside of bustling summer weekends it will never be one of the more engaging or vibrant districts in our city.
 
I wonder if we'll ever refer to this area as the "South Core". I wonder this because it sounds kinda catchy. At least to me :p
 
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